Sign my Avaaz petition if you believe fare evasion should not be a criminal offence

[rliu]

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Par...tters/?nWIoPbb

I see so many threads on prosections for fare evasion in all sorts of forums. I have started this petition because I think giving someone a criminal record, and often young people, for dodging a small amount of money for a fare, is just not right.

As I explain in the petition I do not condone fare evasion and support all the methods currently used to deter it. However I just think it's fairer for rail companies to recover their loss with fines or through civil courts, rather than give someone a criminal record that affects their employability and ability to live and travel abroad.

[StraferJack]

Like other travel offences (parking fines/ speeding fines) the offence itself shouldn't warrant harsh penalties

Such is the ubiquity of offences tho I can see why the crime itself is being treated ever more harshly. If fewer people did it, and it was an occasional offence then maybe

As it is everyone thinks they are a special case

[rliu]

Yeah totally agree it is a problem but I would suggest that train companies employ more staff to sell tickets, and if people get aggressive or rude to train staff get British Transport Police involved and charge them with assault. However from all the internet research I've done I've read so many stories of regular commuters getting prosecuted for incorrect tickets or inattentiveness when swiping Oyster cards etc. I don't see how this is different to people being too busy and forgetting to pay their gas bills etc., for which the provider have no ability to initiate a criminal prosecution.

[Loz]

Torn on this. On one hand, it is essentially theft when done on purpose. But there are many incidents where 'evasion' is accidental or due to faulty equipment or lack of facilities.

But aren't you given the opportunity to pay the fine and it goes no further? Doesn't it only go to court if you don't pay the fine?

But, it doesn't matter anyway as your petition seems to have been withdrawn.

[rliu]

Try this new link http://tinyurl.com/qaqvvsz

[rliu]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Torn on this. On one hand, it is essentially

> theft when done on purpose. But there are many

> incidents where 'evasion' is accidental or due to

> faulty equipment or lack of facilities.

>

> But aren't you given the opportunity to pay the

> fine and it goes no further? Doesn't it only go

> to court if you don't pay the fine?

>

> But, it doesn't matter anyway as your petition

> seems to have been withdrawn.

Regarding this people are often prosecuted if they object to the fine and ask the inspector to just sell them a ticket. Magistrates Court deal with 90% of crimes, including quite serious ones like burglary and robbery, so it just isn't helpful to society if they have to deal with dozens of train fare prosecutions each week.

[StraferJack]

Like loz I'm torn at some level as well

I have been caught out by leaving travel card at home and feel the punishment was disproportionate

But mostly I see people trying it on. I don't think more ticket inspectors are the solution

People need to cop on and behave

When the bendy buses were knocking about, I would tap in and 80% of the time people I was with (people I knew and trusted) would ask me why I did it. Only a few stops

Yeah I know. I'm a square.

[rliu]

It's fair enough being a square. I have posted this on a few forums and the overwhelming response presume I'm trying to get all fare dodgers off the hook. No, I'm just saying the punishment or the debt recovery shouldn't give the rail companies preferential treatment to other utility companies who also operate public infrastructure.

[StraferJack]

The terms of engagement are different to other utility companies tho surely?

You don't give a means of payment , you don't get leccie or water

But you can easily try and get a free ride on buses and trains. And so many people do, the honest person who occasionally messes up is collateral damage.

But the blame is firmly on the law breakers and not the transport companies

It would be different if they were so authoritarian with very few attempts at a free ride. But that isn't the case

[rliu]

Water and electricity are considered basic human necessities and utilities companies are not permitted by law to cut people off from them easily, ie for a few missed payments. This is particularly the case for water.

So therefore people can game that system if they frequently change their address, or if say they are foreign students who will leave after a year so bailiffs would never be able to track them down. This hasn't led to use of criminal law to recover debts in those areas.