Incident on the 343

[Keef]

I said when I first posted that tthere is no excuse for what the driver did, and the guy should be punished, but I just don't much like the tone of this thread being totally against the driver. He shouldn't have let himself get so wound up, fine. However, it sounds like he would have needed the patience of a saint not to get a bit riled by this guy.

And yes blinder, had I seen someone acting in the manner of the cyclist, as described by Carolyn in her original post, get a smack, I would find it hilarious! Sorry it that makes me a terrible person.

We only have carolyn's account to go by

For the record, I'm not doubting a word Carolyn says, but we don't know if the bus driver was thinking to himself "I'm going to teach this guy a lesson".

[Sandperson]

Keef, what an indiotic attitude.

I cycle 18 miles a day too and from work, abide by the rules of the road, and still have a least one incident a week with a bus driver driving badly. What ever the circumstances - and I do see some idiotic cycling as well - what you can't forget is that a bus is a big, red metal object and a cyclsit is a soft squiggy one. I have had bus drivers try to run me off the road, cut me up, pull out in front of me, one guy cut me off last week to the point where I was forced into the curb and when I asked him why he did it he said he was in a hurry and he didn't have time to wait for me (this was on Blackfriars Bridge where I know of at least one cyclist fatality). When one of these guys hits me and sends me to hospital or the morgue I nominate you to go and tell my wife and child.

[carolyn]

no, keef, no one laughed, people were all a bit too freaked out to be that callous straight away.

It was actually a pretty scary situation to be put in as none of us on the bus had any control over the actions over either of the men involved yet we were all being directly affected by their actions. But hey, thanks for making light of it, that was super helpful.

[PeckhamRose]

Stand away from the keyboard, do not return to the keyboard.

[jimmy two times]

Yes another bus related story on the forum in the last week or so. Typical, you wait ages for a bus story to come and then 3 come along at once.

[Keef]

FFS I wasn't making light, I've said several times now that he was wrong to punch him. And Sandperson I'm sure you've seen some bad driving, I just said that maybe just maybe he wasn't trying to run anyone off the road, only he knows that. And why am I the only one who seems to think the cyclist was acting like a total psycho? If he was hitting your car window with you kid in the back, I bet a few people would be less sympathetic.

[carolyn]

I don't think anyone said the cyclist behaved appropriately just on a scale of appropriate he was slightly less worse than the driver, based on size of vehicle and ability to do harm

[Keef]

Okay I'll stop posting on here now, but will say that chasing a bus and banging on the side and the door strikes me as the most dangerous thing described. Sorry if I've got that wrong, but that's how I read your post, in which case he was endangering everyone by distracting the driver of a large vehicle, and he easily could have hurt himself very badly. Idiot! Still, we don't know what caused the whole thing I guess.

[carolyn]

i don't completely disagree with you, just a little bit. i just find the notion that violence should be a cause for laughter really distasteful.

[Keef]

Not a fan of the itchy and scratchy show then? ;-) I probably shouldn't have said that, I don't like fights, I certainly don't encourage them, but I was just admitting that had I been there I probably would have smirked and thought Serves you right you idiot. Not proud, but honest.

[carolyn]

oh well, itchy and scratchy, that's different, that's satire and therefore hilarious

[cookie]

Keef said

"And yes blinder, had I seen someone acting in the manner of the cyclist, as described by Carolyn in her original post, get a smack, I would find it hilarious! Sorry it that makes me a terrible person."

You are indeed a terrible person. Getting "a smack" is often followed by the person being punched smacking their head on the pavement with potential for serious injuries. Not funny at all.

[Jeremy]

Keef already admitted that he shouldn't have said it, and that he doesn't like violence.

Let's leave it there.

[boosboss]

Despite all the b*llocks about who are the worst road users, the bus driver has responsibilities far greater than those of the cyclist. He is PAID to drive a bus, not HIS bus! He has direct radio link to a central control, who can call the police for him, an alarm on the bus to alert others to his situation and can lock himself into his cab (to a degree). He is also responsible for his passengers and their safety. Irrespective of the initial and continuing incident, his actions should render him to be arrested and sacked.

[Keef]

Thanks Jeremy.

bossboss, I actually agree with you, and have never actually defended the driver at all, I just tried to highlight the other side.

Carolyn, the Itchy & Scratchy comment was just trying to defuse this and be friendly, was just making a comment about "sick" violence being "funny" (meaning distasteful) as seen on The Simpsons. Should have just said Tom & Jerry to be clearer. Or should have just shut up and forgotten about it.

You are indeed a terrible person

So not top of your xmas card list then? I thought I'd explained that I was hasty and silly for saying that, but I imagine in your book I'm probably having street fights and bottling people outside the Castle every Friday night.

[carolyn]

sorry i should have included a smiley, that was meant to be a joke intended to continue diffusing the sitch :)

see remembered it that time

[Keef]

:)-D

[Rockets]

Keef already admitted that he shouldn't have said it, and that he doesn't like violence.

Perhaps Keef should drive a bus - sounds like he has the patience of a saint, tends not to engage brain before stiking and regrets his actions afterwards!!

Sorry, couldn't resist! ;-)

[Horsebox]

I've been in a similar situation on more than one occasion i.e. impatient bus drivers unable to wait for a few seconds until I have cleared the space in front of them. The last time this happened was 2 weeks ago when a 37 driver overtook me and cut in front of me at a bus stop, forcing me onto the pavement. Fortunately for me I wasn't hurt and fortunately for the pedestrians I was forced towards, I managed to avoid hitting them.

Unfortunately for the bus driver the whole incident was witnessed by the occupants of a police van.

Keef, your attitude comes across as particularly unpleasant in this thread, despite your attempts at backtracking on what you said.

Pathetic.

[bawdy-nan]

Horsebox - you describe almost exactly the experience I had with a 37 about 4 weeks ago. Very very scary. Not only did he try and force me into the curb, he had already cut in on me at a set of traffic lights (where I was waiting like a good cyclist). I'd been ahead of him and he basically used the might of his 37 to push me out the way. He pulled up at a bus stop, I over took him then he tried to push me into the kerb. He stopped at another busstop then, as I passed, shouted at me - "That's how cyclists get killed". Really, really scary and disturbing. I complained, of course, but they said without the registration they couldn't tell who it was - though I described the time and the location and was under the impression that they were tracked (hence the bus stop info).

[Keef]

Why so unpleasant Horsebox, seriously? Had the bus driver gotten out and been hit would there be quite the same outrage? I wasn't backtracking, I was trying to explain myself. Sorry if that's pathetic. I really need to stop looking at this thread as I can't help responding, and am probably doing myself no favours, but I don't think you have really read what I have said right from my first post. You may not agree with me, but I still make no apologies. The driver was wrong, but the cyclist didn't let it drop did he?

[Horsebox]

Yes, bawdy-nan, it is very scary to be in such a situation - I just wish that the idiots who are unable to wait for a few seconds longer to get where they are going would realise this.

I've reported incidents before - without any reg - and got the same response as you.

I've also reported incidents with reg numbers, only to be sent a somewhat insipid response from the bus company assuring me that they would deal with the driver but "Unfortunately I am unable to disclose any information regarding interviews with our staff as this is a confidential issue between the employer and employee.".

I'm investing in a camera to fix to my lid. I'm not sure how useful it will turn out to be but if nothing else it should make for some interesting youtube clips.

[dulwichbloke]

I must admit, the thought of an over-the-top aggressive cyclist getting put in his place, gives me a slightly warm feeling on a cold night! Obviously I abhor violence, blah blah blah... but I do think cyclists can be a serious danger on the roads. So many completely ignore basic rules of the road and put themselves and (more to the point) others in danger. If you were to dare to object to such road use, a torrent of abuse would all too often follow.

[annaj]

Ok, I'm going to have to stick up for Keef.

As I read it he was saying that, althought the driver's actions weren't justified, there was probably fault on both sides and even someone who witnessed the incident wasn't entirely sure what exactly had happened. Which I think is reasonable.

His comment about laughing if he'd seen the cyclist hit wasn't pathetic, sick or any of the things he's been called, it was probably in poor taste, but he was just admitting to that tiny part in all of us (whether we admit to it or not) that takes pleasure in the idea of something bad happening to someone annoying.

In reality, had Keef been there, I'm sure he wouldn't actually have laughed.

I think this is one of those situations that comes up every now and then where a comment is taken much more seriously, because it's written word and so devoid of all the subtlties of non-verbal communication, than it would be if it were said face to face in the pub.

I'm lucky enough to know Keef and know that he's calm, fair and reasonable and definitely not prone to random acts of mindless violence.

[Horsebox]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why so unpleasant Horsebox, seriously? Had the bus

> driver gotten out and been hit would there be

> quite the same outrage? I wasn't backtracking, I

> was trying to explain myself. Sorry if that's

> pathetic. I really need to stop looking at this

> thread as I can't help responding, and am probably

> doing myself no favours, but I don't think you

> have really read what I have said right from my

> first post. You may not agree with me, but I still

> make no apologies. The driver was wrong, but the

> cyclist didn't let it drop did he?

Keef, if the cyclist had punched the bus driver I find it hard to imagine that many on here would say it was justifiable behaviour.

Likewise, if you had then said you found it funny/smirked etc, I'd still class that as being unpleasant.

Dulwich bloke, if you change "so many" to "a few" or "a minority" the I'd be inclined to agree with you. Otherwise you're talking out of your proverbial.