Dulwich Lofts

[Twilight]

Dear all

I post here in an act of desperation and as a warning to all those contemplating a loft conversion. In April 2013, I decided to do a loft conversion to my two bed, typical ED terrace. I received quotes from Classic, Dulwich and Outlook Lofts. Dulwich Lofts weren't the cheapest but I fell for the rugged, workman like nature of Pat Egan (the owner of Dulwich Lofts) and the lilt of his architect (Pamela Fitzsimmons). In June of 2013 I paid the deposit. Work commenced (via subcontractors, which I hadn't been told about) in October 2013.

In December 2013, I had a massive amount of water ingress through one of the two party walls. Pat Egan insisted that it was due to a problem with my neighbour's property. This is owned by Grainger plc; an independent survey has since been conducted by Banbridge Surveyors (I can't recommend them enough) and the report makes for eye-watering reading. It indicates that the roof is wholly sub-standard; the walls which were built to create the new space have significant cracks and have actually crossed into the territory that legally belongs to my neighbour. Interestingly, the surveyor was surprised that it had received approval from Building Control; the "trick" here is that Pat Egan used 'Approved Building Control' [a company called ACT Building Control - based in Gloucestershire] as opposed to Southwark Council under the guise that it would be quicker (PM me if you want more details). Since then we have had Russell from PJP Roofing (known to many on the forum) around to ask have a look; in his opinion it was the worst 'new' roof he had ever seen; the surveyor said he feared for his life when he stood on it.

For the last few months water has started to enter via the second party wall. I have called, emailed and written to Pat Egan (and all those associated with Dulwich Lofts) on numerous occasions and sent him copies of the surveyors report. Other than sending an email to say that he planned to appoint his own surveyor (no timescale specified), he has not responded. 13 months after this entire saga began and having paid 95% of the entire contract value to Pat Egan, my home is still a building site - he has ruined the arrival of my first born and caused untold damage to my marriage.

To top it all off, I recently bumped into his son, Damien Egan. He would happily come round to collect the payments - when questioned about the lack of response, he reported that he was 'no longer working for Dulwich Lofts'.

I had thought I was the only person in this situation, but I see that the poster EDAus has had similar problems ? if anyone knows of a good lawyer, please PM me ?

But above all else, avoid this company like the plague ?

[picmicnic]

Thanks for the warning, we won't use them as a result (if that's any consolation)

[yeknomyeknom]

Thanks for posting, very responsible of you. Much appreciated and sorry for your hell.

[ironjawcannon]

Looked on their website. Interestingly they do not mention any profession building trade standards associations that they belong to. Nor do they say anything about their work being insured. I feel for you, we thought we were very careful and still picked some cowboys too.

[Twilight]

Thank you all ?

As part of the sales pitch and contract they said all work was guaranteed for 10 years and they have insurance cover for up to ?10 million ? All very good, but as I have now learnt, when you need it to swing into action, they will just not respond ?

[Sophron]

Trading standards might be interested to learn about how their proposition is being put?

[Twilight]

Thanks Sophron ?

Thinking of a three pronged approach at present:

1) Trading Standards

2) Legal action

3) Publicity

The thing I find most scary is that so many people probably have no idea what structurally unsound roofs these guys have installed by abusing the 'Approved Building Control' route ...

[DirtyBox]

I would also go after the building control company. They are required to have insurance so you my be able to claim from them.

[Twilight]

Thanks DB ?

Building work, from what I can tell, is a nightmare! But Pat Egan and Dulwich Lofts have really taken the biscuit ...

[Constantgardener]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience which sounds horrible and really stressful. I have to say my experience with Dulwich lofts was very different. They built a loft extension for us last summer, and although it was not a perfect process, in general we were happy with the result. My neighbour also had a loft built by them, as did some neighbours down the road. We got a certificate of lawfulness (although I did have to chase for this to be sent) and I understand that not using Lewisham or southward building control to sign off the work is legal (although I am not an expert and I will be checking this out with Lewisham council). We certainly had to change some stuff downstairs in order to comply with building control, and Pamela was helpful in explaining some aspects of building regs. So I'm not in any way wishing to contradict your experience with Dulwich lofts, just to say my experience was different, and thankfully much better. My friend had similar issues to you with Outlook lofts, but another friend had an ok build with them. So I guess it varies considerably from job to job. I would say that I thought Dulwich lofts were building far too many lofts, and seemed stretched, but that probably goes with the territory. Good luck with getting it resolved with Dulwich lofts.

[MissWiggy]

That sounds like an awful experience. Having been through major building works last year I know how stressful it can be without the added difficulty of it going wrong.

I would definitely seek legal advice and tell Dulwich Lofts that you are doing so. That might stir them into action.

Good luck.

[Twilight]

Hi Miss Wiggy ?

Have already done this ? no response.

If needs be, I will start legal proceedings at the end of this month ? I am sure that I am not the only one this has happened to ? I think he has probably got away with a mixture of intimidation and lies over the years ?

[Twilight]

Dear Constant Gardener ?

The Approved Building Control thing is legal but it works against you as a customer. If Pat Egan goes to a private company who do Building Control and says "I do 300 lofts a year; will you do the Building Control for ?1000 per loft?", they are not likely to make his life difficult as they want the cash to keep rolling in. If he used Southwark Council's Building Control, they don't care if the cash keeps rolling in or not ? they'll make him do each and every build properly. I have learnt this at a significant cost ? I have also learnt that these non-council based Building Control companies ultimately issue you a certificate which says something along the lines of "we certify, to the best of knowledge and the information supplied it to us, that this build meets the requirements of Building Control" ? it doesn't say it meets Building Control standards. But Pat doesn't explain that ? he use says it's 'quicker' to use Approved Building Control, as Southwark Council etc.,. are 'slow'.

The other thing that makes me worry about lots of people out there with a loft conversion already done by DL is that I saw them doing a conversion on Lordship Lane, just beyond the library (opposite side). They had Southwark Council doing the Building Control ? it took "Pat's guys" three attempts to get the roof right ?

We too, have a Certificate of Lawfulness - all that does is say that what you built is in keeping with Planning Regulations etc.,. It is no guarantee of quality ...

I think a lot of people get caught out by shiny new paint on new walls - as Pat Egan kept saying, "you're only going to live here a few years and then you'll sell up and move on". That's his logic ? if what he builds, lasts for a few years, he'll pocket the cash and all the people who hand over their hard earned cash won't have a clue ? we found out the hard way, that there is no substance to Dulwich Lofts.

[Penguin68]

As for Constantgardener, my experience (3 or more years ago) was very different - work was done to time and well (and to the agreed budget) by a direct labour force (not sub-contracted, except for specialist areas such as stairs, which were pre-made to order and then installed by Pat's men) - with Southwark doing the building control. I am very surprised (and, of course, saddened) to read of such troubles.

[K&O Pest Control]

i am so vey sorry to hear about your experience with this company. I can only imagine the heartache and stress it caused you. I do hope things are ok in your marriage now.

I do know a very good solicitor and couldn't recommend him highly enough.

if you would like his details I would be more than happy to pass them on to you. in box me

take care of yourself things will get better from now on im very sure of that.

Vicki

[MissWiggy]

If that hasn't promoted a response then I would definitely see a solicitor and discuss issuing proceedings / making a claim as soon as possible.

The legal process isn't particularly quick and so I would start it sooner rather than later given the efforts you have already made in trying to sort this out amicably.

Again, good luck and please feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further.

[MrsSW]

Thanks very much for the warning Twilight... Was just going to get them round for a quote. Had similar issues just before and when our first child was born (in another part of London so no need to warn people in Dulwich!) and I found it extremely upsetting. Really hope your building site is rectified soon and it doesn't stop you enjoying spending time with your new baby (although it's hard enough work without all this!).

[Twilight]

Thank you all for your good wishes. I am sure at one point DL were a decent, reputable firm ? but the lure of quick money (lots of potential work) appears to have led to shoddy and unsafe building practices ? It would appears that others have also experienced issues ?

Re: Has anyone used either Create Spaces or Loft Life? Looking for recommendation!

Posted by EDAus June 18, 09:31AM

Just in case anyone is considering Dulwich Lofts - we cannot recommend them after numerous ongoing problems.

We started our loft conversion last October and everything is still not finished. Feel free to private message me if you want further information/details.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?30,1340867,1342309#msg-1342309

[Twilight]

K&O Pest Control ? have PM'd you ?

[ali2007]

sorry you had such a bleak experience.

we had a loft conversion but got architects drawings, sent it out to tender to builders, got quotes, then got a cost plan for each line item on the job (which cost about ?500 more from a QS). Every little job was listed then when each job was completed to standard, we ticked it off the list and paid up. I can't recommend this enough. It was a smooth experience all round.

Surely with all these loft companies, their eye is on their budget and keeping the cost of their materials low to maximise profit which is why quality gets sacrificed :(

[Sean Of Dulwich]

aww i see it has there addy on there website intresting ty gonna go pay someone a visit

[Twilight]

Thanks Sean ?

Have already done that ?

It's a flat in a Council Estate ?

No one answers the door ? A neighbour two doors down told me that the owner - Pat Egan - occasionally pop's in ?

It's all a house of cards ?

[Rhymetimer]

Hi Twilight,

Just saw this thread and wanted to get in touch to see whether you've managed to get any recompense from Dulwich Lofts? I feel for you with your experience - having someone do such harm to your home and family life makes you angry beyond all measure. As someone said before, you just can't predict how builders will perform - we also used Dulwich Lofts based on extremely high recommendations and, although it was nowhere near as big a botch as your job sounds, it was a very stressful time. I found Pat Egan bullying and almost impossible to deal with. They went way over their contracted timeframe and towards the end just weren't turning up for days at a time. Egan wouldn't answer calls, was extremely aggressive over email, harassed us about money already paid and falsely claimed to be a member of a regulatory body.

As well as stressing your advice never to use this company, I'd also like to suggest to anyone reading considering building works to make sure you have the schedule of works (ie timeframe) set out in the contract with agreed penalties for missing deadlines, and also to withhold more than the 5% of money usually due on completion. This seems to be an amount that firms are often willing to write off in order to move on to their next project and collect the larger deposits at the start of a new job.

Of course not all firms are the same, but a bad experience does leave you embittered! I'm just glad that hopefully Dulwich Lofts are no longer getting so much business. Thanks for warning people Twilight, and I really hope things are getting sorted for you.

[1960sdude]

Thanks...sorry to hear about your grim experience. I'm having a Loft Conversion and they are on the strike off list.

Many thanks

Lee

[Daisylets]

Anyone on the hunt for a loft company - I personally had a loft conversion with very small dormer (Dulwich Estate restrictions, bah!) done by Outlook lofts including a whole new roof and they were great, my usual roofer said the roof looked like a great job (and he'd soon tell me!) and we've had no problems a year later. Dave the owner is brilliant, an all round nice guy and willing to go the extra mile personally when needed - which says a lot :o)