loss of East Croydon-London Bridge serivce

[Eileen]

local rail users might like to respond to this on-line survey from Tessa Jowell MP about the loss of the two trains an hour service between London Bridge and East Croydon, which goes through East Dulwich and Peckham Rye stations: loss of the link to East Croydon and Gatwick, and loss of two trains an hour to London Bridge.

__________________________________________________________________________

EMAIL FROM TESSA JOWELL MP

I hope you do not mind me sending you this email but it is about an issue that I know is of importance to many people living in my constituency.

?

I am concerned?that a?new rail timetable that commences on 14 December will remove two trains per hour from the off-peak timetable on the service running to London Bridge through Gipsy Hill, West Norwood, Tulse Hill, North Dulwich and East Dulwich.

I opposed these changes with Southern Rail and the?Department for Transport but, surprisingly,?a passenger representative group?supported them?and they will now go ahead.

The new timetable provides four off-peak trains to and from London Bridge every hour instead of the current six. The trains to be removed are the ones that run every half hour from London Bridge to/from?Smitham via East Croydon.

?

The peak service is?unaffected.

I want to hear your views about how these changes will affect you. Please?take a few minutes to complete my survey by clicking on the link below or by pasting it into your browser:?

?

http://www.tessajowell.net/rail_survey

?

You can be assured that I will use your response?to support local rail users in getting the best possible service when timetables are being revised.

?

With best wishes,

?

Tessa Jowell

(Member of Parliament for Dulwich & West Norwood)

[Muttley]

I've written to register my objection to this reduction in service. Trains every 15 minutes makes the service even less like the tube, where you can just turn up and wait for the next train. If a train is cancelled, turning up on spec could now mean waiting 30 minutes.

[matthew123]

What gets me is that "a passenger representative group supported" these changes! No doubt the change was packaged alongside changes that benefit other parts of the network.

[Comus]

With an increasingly mobile population in E. Dulwich and continued road congestion, any reduction in rail services is a bad move and sends the wrong signals. Six trains an hour should be a minimum to encourage travellers and reassure us that the service is frequent and reliable. The evening service is inadequate too, but I know that's another issue.

[MrBen]

ED and Peckham Rye are loosing train connections all over the place, with the London Bridge to Victoria service being taken out in 2010. Good for that maintinaing that villiagy feeling, bad for getting to work.

BarnSeeker

[shaun]

I've written a very scathing letter to Southern Trains about this but I have no doubt at all that NOTHING will happen as a result of complaints from passengers. Southern Trains couldn't care less about our opinions and continually show that they have nothing but contempt and disregard for their paying customers. Let's just all hope and pray that they lose their franchise when it goes up for renewal this year.

I wonder if we'll be offered a discount of 1/3 our monthly travelcard from the 14th December to make up for the cut of a 1/3 of our service? No, thought not.

Seriously though, TFL need to get ownership of all suburban routes in London so that adequate services can be run. Until that happens we'll be left with a second rate, delayed, slow, dirty service.

[paulino]

tessa's survey is not working for me - anyone else have problems with it?

[Strawbs]

I filled it in and it worked fine.. Im all for the same amount or more trains and not less. I did hear though that the trains they are cutting are not in peak times and adding more late at night, I think that's a good idea.. Dont like the idea of losing trains altogether though i.e. the PR to VIC - we use that regularly..

[Ladygooner]

Worked fine for me too. I also asked for more trains home after the rush hour.

[shaun]

What extra trains are they running in the evening?

Strawbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I filled it in and it worked fine.. Im all for the

> same amount or more trains and not less. I did

> hear though that the trains they are cutting are

> not in peak times and adding more late at night, I

> think that's a good idea.. Dont like the idea of

> losing trains altogether though i.e. the PR to VIC

> - we use that regularly..

[Strawbs]

S - Im sure I read on the forum here lsat week that currently after I think maybe 8 or 7 (and dont quote me but I will try to find it) that they then only run every 30 mins but they were going to extend the late night trains for 1 hour i.e. either 8 or 9 it would then go to every 30 mins..

I will see if I can go and find it..

[Strawbs]

From peckhamboy on the other thread re the trains

At the risk of striking a rational and balanced note amongst the fury, what is the real impact?

- Off-peak trains from ED to London bridge will run every 15 mins instead of every 10. I appreciate that might be annoying for some, but it doesn't strike me as a huge issue.

- No connection from ED to East croydon for the Gatwick train. As far as I could tell, this train was only every half hour anyway - it was almost quicker to go to LB and get the direct train from there. There is an alternative train from Forest Hill which isn't that far away (may even be closer for a lot of people).

And nobody seems to have pointed out that we seem to be getting an additional train in the evening at 2003, which I personally am delighted about. 1949 always seemed far too early to switch from 6 trains an hour to 2 (as evidenced by the fact that the 2019 is invariably standing room only). It will still go down to 2 an hour after 2019, but it's a start.

Personally, I'll be using the new 2003 much more than I ever used the E Croydon train, so maybe I'm biased, but overall I don't think there's too much to get stoked up about. And given the number of people who said they'd like to attend the meeting but wouldn't be home in time, I'm guessing that might be the position of quite a large number of ED residents if they were given all the details rather than just the ones the OP wanted to get people worked up about.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,188478

[shaun]

What a really depressing post that is, letting the rail companies reduce the service by a third without so much as a whimper. How anyone can stand up for the travesty that is Southern Rail I have no idea. Putting on ONE extra train a day does not make up for this reduction in service nor their continuing lack of respect for their paying customers.

Strawbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> From peckhamboy on the other thread re the trains

>

> At the risk of striking a rational and balanced

> note amongst the fury, what is the real impact?

> - Off-peak trains from ED to London bridge will

> run every 15 mins instead of every 10. I

> appreciate that might be annoying for some, but it

> doesn't strike me as a huge issue.

> - No connection from ED to East croydon for the

> Gatwick train. As far as I could tell, this train

> was only every half hour anyway - it was almost

> quicker to go to LB and get the direct train from

> there. There is an alternative train from Forest

> Hill which isn't that far away (may even be closer

> for a lot of people).

>

> And nobody seems to have pointed out that we seem

> to be getting an additional train in the evening

> at 2003, which I personally am delighted about.

> 1949 always seemed far too early to switch from 6

> trains an hour to 2 (as evidenced by the fact that

> the 2019 is invariably standing room only). It

> will still go down to 2 an hour after 2019, but

> it's a start.

>

> Personally, I'll be using the new 2003 much more

> than I ever used the E Croydon train, so maybe I'm

> biased, but overall I don't think there's too much

> to get stoked up about. And given the number of

> people who said they'd like to attend the meeting

> but wouldn't be home in time, I'm guessing that

> might be the position of quite a large number of

> ED residents if they were given all the details

> rather than just the ones the OP wanted to get

> people worked up about.

>

> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5

> ,188478

[Eddie M]

I'm only an fairly irregular user of this service, and would obviously prefer its retention in a perfect world. However all service companies adjust what they provide if there is a better use of limited resources - presumably in this instance, train slots through East Croydon. I expect that passenger group representatives would have seen the evidence that there are wider benefits for a greater number of people compared with users on our line having to change trains at Selhurst (only a four minute wait southbound I notice by the way). I accept it would be nice to know what this evidence is, though.

Furthermore, (looking at the Department for Transport consultation document on the specification for the new franchise), this service pattern appears to be repeated going forward. Given that this was apparently drawn up "woking closely with TfL", it doesn't appear that they disagree with what's happening or are going to ride to the rescue either.

Overall, things like rail timetables do have to change and develop over time, otherwise we'd all have the same service pattern from ages ago. And such changes need not all be bad news. For example, I think I'm right in saying (though perhaps Eileen can confirm?) that from March next year, the Blackfriars trains from Nunhead, Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill will run through Blackfriars to City Thameslink, Farringdon, St Pancras International and beyond. So there can be positive as negative changes.

[sweetgirl]

i have filled out the form, lets hope she takes note!

[Comus]

The whole point about train services is that a large complex city like London needs a good travel infrastructure: one that is comprehensive and reliable. It is clearly in the interest of a commercially run train company to keep costs down and run the minimum service compatible with its service agreement. As users we would like trains to appear and go where we want them to at a moments notice with the minimum of fuss and delay. The secret seems to be balancing these two incompatible aims.

The train companies employ a sophisticated persuasion process in trading off different rail uses needs against each other to demonstrate that line ?a? is to be enhanced at the expense of the demise of line ?b?. This is the ?everyone likes cheddar cheese therefore no-one like camembert so we don?t sell it? mode of thought. The loss of London Bridge to Victoria impacts on relatively few people compared to, say, those commuting from Surry,even though London Bridge/Victoria is obviously an important orbital route which could be part of a much more comprehensive ?outer circle? scheme if anyone had the imagination and motivation to develop it.

As far as we are concerned in East Dulwich, if there is not a frequent, reliable, clean and safe service more people will be forced into cars ? especially at night. The off -peak and evening service can therefore be shown to be underused and two trains an hour perfectly adequate. This achieves the aim of running revenue generating train at peak-times and convincing us that, as there is no demand for off-peak and evening services, they can be reduced to a minimum. Ergo, we don?t travel by train at night if there is an alternative.

I belive that Transport for London should take primary charge of inner London public transport from at least roughly the South Circular Road inwards. TfL should be a major if not dominant player in awarding franchises at least to the point where rail companies (whose main revenue generation base, let?s not forget, is from starting points far beyond inner London) are aware that this is a political issue and that they will be held to account for their performance. TfL should have real power to enforce agreements and be more directly accountable to voters,

Without wanting to degrade the service to daily commuters medium and long-distance who need to travel to London every day to work, there is an absolute necessity to provide proper transport in inner South East London. This is bound up in things like quality of life and regeneration. It?s not good enough to think ?there?s no decent train, so I?ll jump in the car?. It is of limited use to diligently separate cardboard, newspapers and bottles for recycling (good though this is) if we don?t also join up our thinking and keep sight of public transport.

[Eileen]

Eddie M Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>> Overall, things like rail timetables do have to

> change and develop over time, otherwise we'd all

> have the same service pattern from ages ago. And

> such changes need not all be bad news. For

> example, I think I'm right in saying (though

> perhaps Eileen can confirm?) that from March next

> year, the Blackfriars trains from Nunhead, Peckham

> Rye and Denmark Hill will run through Blackfriars

> to City Thameslink, Farringdon, St Pancras

> International and beyond. So there can be positive

> as negative changes.

Yes this is true. We are getting our services through Blackfriars back - a result of the restructuring there and no where for them to stop!

[dom23]

Hi,

I'm a student journalist at goldsmiths and im doing an article about the reducion of rail services.

Could i use your quote on this forum for an article i'm writing about it? It will only be used for a college report.

Regards, Dominique Brady

[Huguenot]

Hi Dominique - click the 'Reply via Private Message (PM)' link on the bottom of the original message you'd like to quote in your article, and an email will be sent to the forumite's private address. You should get a quicker response that way. :)

[jaybee82]

Did anyone get on the 7:31am service from East Croydon to London Bridge this morning? For one reason or another there were two less carriages than normal and subsequently nowhere near enough space to shoehorn everyone in to. I do hope this isnt a sign of things to come.

[Comus]

Did anyone get on the 7:31am service from East Croydon to London Bridge this morning? For one reason or another there were two less carriages than normal and subsequently nowhere near enough space to shoehorn everyone in to. I do hope this isnt a sign of things to come.

Did anyone die? (No) Did everyone pay? (yes) OK, job done. Let's see if 15-25% reductions can work elsewhere!

If any other business reduced its service randomly like this for whatever reason there would be riots on an Athenian scale. Imagine if we went to Sainsbury's and a loaf of bread was 20% shorter one day, or if (horror of horrors) that pint of expensive European beer was served with two inches to go to the top (and an above inflation price rise on the way...).

It's just that we are so used to an abominably shabby and expensive service - and we have to get to work somehow - that we somehow put up with the lame excuses and statistical sophistry of the train companies.

[Moos]

Yep, I did - and it was a remarkably good-humoured crowd, which made an unpleasant journey more bearable.

[Michael Palaeologus]

The service this morning was bloody, the only upside was the 45 minutes spent chatting to Annasfield waiting for a very late train, in the cold.

I am sure the tossers do it on purpose so that we are pathetically happy when the service works as advertised.

[Strawbs]

MP - which train did you get today? I was on the 7.51 and it was as smooth as a whistle today..

x

[Michael Palaeologus]

7.05 or something like that - early start today!

Was on time.

X