Egg based outrage at EDD...now quite scared

[bawdy-nan]

I completely understand the locking of the door, I said as much in another post, its pretty standard practice, I think.

Fair enough to reprimand me for being rude about your staff. I've done my time as lowly wiping assistant and my description wasn't intended to insult the person. They were clearly not in charge and they were wiping. They were also clearly as embarrassed as I was by fella-me-lad's absolutely rubbish handling of a difficult situation and a customer who was spending a lot of money...

Certainly my references to his Napoleonic stature and attitude were rude and I was poking fun and laughing at him. It is sometimes difficult to remember a forum is a public place. But so is a shop and I'm not trying to sell anyone any cheese or ham. I'm not bitter at all. I'm allowed to hold and express an opinion and I think I made a fair comment based on what I'd seen. If you don't want people to make negative comments about your shop (which if you read what I wrote, you'll see I didn't) then perhaps a slightly more customer focussed approach would help, especially if you're trading on the "we're locals and proud of our community" stance.

I suspect that you're delighted your business is thriving and can simply make the choice to piss off a few people if you so wish. Long may you thrive, long may rising house prices continue to bring the people you need and long may rising interests rates stay low enough to allow your customers enough disposable income to spend on treats.

[karter]

Tony

Its good to hear it from your side, finally, Jay is great at what he does, good at his job. I think that the situation just got out of hand as things can sometimes and unfortunately Bawdy-nan was invoved in it. Security is an issue , you should get one of those security boxes issued by the police station if you don't already have one.

K

[bawdy-nan]

I wasn't involved in it I was just there and only trying to buy something. Maybe he's great usually, I don't know, that's why I was asking. The original post got a mixed response so there's the answer - some people think he's great some people think he's rude. Probably the same as all human beings. The customer wasn't much more attractive in her steely determination to have her way. The whole thing made me feel a bit tainted.

[TillieTrotter]

You're quite within your rights to express your opinions without being attacked for it BAWDY, I think we're all big and ugly enough to make our own minds up as to whether we're influenced by your opinions. After all isn't this what this community site is all about.

[taff lewis]

From my experience we have found your manager nothing but arrogant and rude to people, he has put us off going there. We think it is a great shop but having people like that spoils the whole experience.......

[snorky]

TW Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to say as the owner of the shop I really am

> disappointed by all your negative remarks I will

> speak to my team re charging customers for stock

> they damage, but sometimes it is un-avoidable;

> when people just don't care. However we do

> appreciate that accidents happen! As I am sure

> most of you are aware, we moved to east dulwich

> more than five years and put every penny we had

> into that business and worked hard 7 days a week

> with just one other member of staff, a few

> robberies and shop lifters to boot ... Then great

> things happened on Lordship lane and lots of other

> fine shops moved into the area and with that house

> prices increased of watch I am sure most of you

> have benefited, unless of course the reason you

> are so bitter is that your still renting!!! I

> designed the shop myself that door on the right is

> actually a flat, we did not anticpate the success

> and I probably have made design errors, of which

> we will address as and when we can.. My staff of

> 10 including my Manager Jay are a great bunch and

> work extremely hard and truly are offended by your

> comments, what bitter people you must be to

> verbally attack someone in this way. You know you

> can always vote with your feet and we don't make

> you come into the shop.. Not that I want to drive

> customers away I don't I do feel that you are

> unjust in saying mean things about people you

> don't know IE my staff.. why can't you be proud of

> the fact the we have a thriving community and a

> great local high street rather than spending you

> time slagging it off; and for those of you that do

> like our shop and mention this and I will give you

> 10% off and a free loaf of bread.. excluding the

> marked down table all at ?2.00.. xx

How dare WE the punters critisise you shop ? after all , WHAT would we know about the blood sweat ansd tears that you have put into your shop for OUR benefit, the SACRIFICES you have made to enrich our sad little lives.

we should thankful that you are rude to us - where would we be without your overpriced little luxuries ? We would still be buying frozen chicken and tins of spam from Iceland. we should be so thankful.

Other EDF readers - check out this posters retort objectively and ask yourself - do you want to give this person any more of your hard earned cash ? Do they seem like a likeable agreeable well rounded charachter or something else ?

Use your initiative and shop elsewhere.You can still support the community and keep clear of this place.

[Louisa]

This chap sounds god awful, and I now wish that the famous charity shop had never closed down! I dont need any overpriced items thanks, especially when it's being sold by some bawdy fat freak who thinks his shop is fantabulous!

[TW]

Just so you know it is not Tony that responded but Tracey as in Tracey Woodward co owner of EDD & Born & Bread wife to Tony!

[snorky]

Ive amended it to apply to either gender now.

[louisiana]

TW Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to say as the owner of the shop I really am

> disappointed by all your negative remarks I will

> speak to my team re charging customers for stock

> they damage, but sometimes it is un-avoidable;

> when people just don't care. However we do

> appreciate that accidents happen!

Accidents are almost certain to happen where the store layout is as it is. They are then not accidents. If so much available walking space is covered in goods, by design, then it is not an accident. To then blame customers for what happens seems perverse.

As I am sure

> most of you are aware, we moved to east dulwich

> more than five years

Moved here in '86 myself

and put every penny we had

> into that business and worked hard 7 days a week

> with just one other member of staff, a few

> robberies and shop lifters to boot ...

Many of us have done the same (run our own businesses)

Then great

> things happened on Lordship lane and lots of other

> fine shops moved into the area and with that house

> prices increased of watch I am sure most of you

> have benefited, unless of course the reason you

> are so bitter is that your still renting!!!

??

Still??

I

> designed the shop myself that door on the right is

> actually a flat, we did not anticpate the success

> and I probably have made design errors, of which

> we will address as and when we can..

Most of the problems are down to goods stacked on the floor. Which is not an issue concerning any kind of investment in infrastructure or design. It appears to be a policy, and it's been getting worse, if anything.

My staff of

> 10 including my Manager Jay are a great bunch and

> work extremely hard and truly are offended by your

> comments, what bitter people you must be to

> verbally attack someone in this way.

The times I've been into the shop over the years, the staff have been either nice or not, but too much of the latter, and sometimes customers are ignored altogether (e.g. staff chatting for extensive periods to visiting friends).

You know you

> can always vote with your feet and we don't make

> you come into the shop..

Quite

Not that I want to drive

> customers away I don't I do feel that you are

> unjust in saying mean things about people you

> don't know IE my staff..

The only person I've mentioned specifically was nice (the girl from Spain) - I've refrained from identifying the others who were otherwise.

why can't you be proud of

> the fact the we have a thriving community and a

> great local high street rather than spending you

> time slagging it off;

I've been proud of living in ED since 1986 - some time before your shop arrived. Many things contribute to a lively local community. And that includes *all* the local shops, the schools, the environment, the amenities, clubs, the people that live here, and this forum.

People are, of course, free to criticise, and free to take their trade where they wish.

Most small businesses take criticism on board - the criticism is often at least partly deserved, and can be useful in improving service. A business that doesn't listen to its customers will not last long.

and for those of you that do

> like our shop and mention this and I will give you

> 10% off and a free loaf of bread.. excluding the

> marked down table all at ?2.00.. xx

I'm afraid you're not doing yourself any favours marketing-wise with this post.

[TillieTrotter]

Very much agree with Lousiana on all points. I own/run a small business in the service industry and whilst its sometimes difficult to take critisism its something you just have to get on with and I think its fair to say that the comments here have pretty much been constructive. So TW, try not to take it too personally, these folk are pretty fair and seem to see lots of good reasons to shop in the EDD:))

[Jah Lush]

Just to add my ha'porth worth here. I've only been into the EDD a couple of times and on each occasion a girl behind the counter looked at me as if I was some piece of excrement that she'd stepped in on the street. I thought: you can drop the attitude love, you're only a f*****g shop assistant. So I "voted with my feet" and walked out without buying anything.

[Mark]

"you're only a f*****g shop assistant"

blimey, that's rather patronising.

[Jah Lush]

LOL. If you say so Mark.

[Ultraconsultancy]

Criticism from your customers - even criticism made in the heat of argument - is one of the most valuable free resources that business managers can benefit from. And it's totally focused on your shop too. it's gold dust; so listen up. Complaints in the shop should be dealt with by the most senior person onsite, immediately.It is a foolish retailer indeed who thinks he can do without any kind of customers; all their money is the same you know.

[mumra]

Could not agree more Ultraconsultancy. Criticism is hard to take but noone makes it up and it is silly to take it as a personal attack when you are running a business. I personally regard good customer service above product and often go to shops/cafes where me and my buggy get a smile and the door held open rather than a shop that has the best produce. Would love to see the 2 combined but not always possible.

[Scruffy Mummy]

One useful thing might be to look at shops which do seem to have a high level of customer satisfaction.

For instance, Hope and Greenwood. The owners rarely work behind the counter now but the staff are extremely welcoming and have obvisously been given alot of training in customer service and told how to greet, serve and deal with customers. You can tell that the staff have been primed on working and serving children as well. I always feel like they are happy to have you in the shop - glad for the business even though they are clearly doing well and packed out at peak times. Staff are also primed to help women with buggies and always hold the door open which is incredibly thoughtful.

My only sadness is that they I've never seen Fairtrade Chocolate sold there - another user on this forum alerted me to problems with non-fairtrade choc so I try to only buy fairtrade now. However, at least I can buy their lovely ice cream!!

Also the Neverending Story Bookshop is very welcoming and helpful. The owner there has a background in management and working with people and that really shines through.

There are lots of courses out there in customer service - I'm sure lots of government funded initiatives for SME's which would provide local shopkeepers with free or subsdised training in customer service issues. Why not check with the Learning and Skills Council??

[dave]

I like the idea of the deli and think it's a good thing. The stuff that they sell is generally of a high standard and it's nice to be able to shop locally rather than trekking up to Borough Market or elsewhere - as others have said. Despite the fact that it's not cheap, I think the fact that it serves a market/need is reflected by the fact that there are frequently queues out through the door. Obviously dealing with these queues means that the staff will be under a certain amount of strain, and this might be transmitted as a certain amount of brusqueness. For that they have my sympathy - and my empathy. I have worked in similar jobs.

However, I have repeatedly been in the EDD and seen people treated in a way which was just plain rude because they were unsure of exactly what they wanted. The first time I saw this sort of thing I thought the individuals serving them must just be having an off day (have never experienced the rude service myself). But again and again when I have been in there, rather than helping or guiding or informing (which, it might be said, would be particularly helpful given the scattergun approach to labelling in the chilled counter), I've seen some of the people behind the counter respond to people who want to spend money on nice things by tutting, head-shaking, condescending or patronising - fair play to the other staff who clearly don't approve.

Having read some of the posts from TW, I am afraid I can see where the impatient patronising attitude might be coming from. Surely by helping people out you can ensure they keep coming back? The owners and staff of the EDD could take a few lessons from everyone at William Rose in how to deal with people when under pressure, especially when those people don't always know exactly what they want - friendly, knowledgeable, helpful and always courteous.

I think that the layout of the shop is less than ideal, but then again if I wanted wide aisles with enough room for buggies etc I would go to Sainsbury's. The current layout actually means that people will speak to each other - say "excuse me" and make eye contact. And if there is occasionally damage to stock because of the bottlenecks it would only be reasonable for the manager to accept this as a loss. Bullying people into a "you break it, you buy it" policy might be counterproductive in the long run.

And the general tone of the posting by TW, while laudable in standing up for the staff, has certainly not made me want to shop in the Deli anytime soon. Does anyone have any suggestions for good local alternatives, though?

[snorky]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> On Good Friday I popped into EDD near closing time

> to buy a piece of cheese. I was alarmed to be

> witness to a very ugly "discussion". A customer,

> who seemed to be spending a truly ludicrous amount

> of money on chocolate based egg-style tat, was

> being faced down by the Napoleon in charge.

> Apparently she'd knocked over some bunny/egg

> confection in the pile it high sell it even higher

> room of precarious display and damaged it. The

> squat wee fella in charge was insisting she pay

> for it. She insisted she wasn't to blame, rather

> the over ambitious display. Teeny tiny Tim

> pointed, stony faced, to the large bag of

> similarly damaged goods citing the "good"

> customers who'd paid up without complaint or even

> the desire to take away the broken goods.

>

> Our determined lady insisted she wouldn't pay and

> they haggled, humourlessly, until they reached an

> agreement of sorts.

>

> Meanwhile I'd persuaded someone to serve me my

> cheese. I tried to leave only to find he'd locked

> the door!

>

> He took her 70 quid and told her she was "out of

> order" she took her bag of fancy easter fayre.

>

> I secured the help of a lowly wiping assistant and

> legged it.

>

> Commerce won in the end, presumably because all

> other available chocolate egg outlets were closed

> and this woman had some serious confectionery

> promises to fulfil.

>

> I've found the man grumpy before but this was very

> very strange and possibly the worst and most

> ungracious exchange i've witnessed in a ED shop.

>

> Am I safe to return to EDD?

Did anyone think to advise the lady in question to gt the filth involved and get the sour faced arrogant owner nicked for false imprisonment ?

As much as I opposed to the compensation culture, a nice little civil action for distress/anguish/et al against the EDD may help wipe the self satisfied smirk of the less than genial host.

[JADED]

Cheese Block for Cheese, trucklements and small treat based oddities

Hope and Greenwood for chocs (though, bizarrely, EDD is cheaper)

The bread stall on Friday and Sat for bread cakes etc

Green and Blue for cured meat (I think)

[Scruffy Mummy]

Just saw a notice in Hope and Greenwood today- they have announced their own brand FAIRTRADE products they are now selling!!

HURRAH! HURRAH!

[tomk]

Never been so outraged until I saw TW's 'defence'. No attempt to explain the locking of the door/charging a well-meaning customer for breakages - rather a 'f*** you' for daring to suggest the EDD is beyond criticism. I've always liked the EDD until I saw this (although to compare its produce to Borough's is frankly laughable). Having read this I think I shall 'vote with my feet' rather than take the whopping 10% off bread he/she has offered. Roll on the next deli; hopefully this time some element of customer service/care will be included.

PS - why criticise Cafe Nero on this thread? - have they done anything akin to what has been described here? I think not - don't get sucked into the 'because it's independent it must be honest' argument; frankly, Nero's customer service is head and shoulders above most of LL's independent stores (G&B excepted - what a great extension!)

[Mark]

Hi tomk

I mentioned Caffe Nero but I wasn't criticising them, I was just saying that I admire the fact that owners of local business such as the ED Deli, Green & Blue, the Bishop etc have the personal touch and show their passion for their business on websites like this one, it does take a certain amount of balls to do that. I couldn't imagine the owner of Caffe Nero coming on here and addressing issues but I may be proved wrong, in fact I did write to Caffe Nero head office and asked for their thoughts after their planning permission was turned down but I heard nothing back. I made no mention in my previous post of 'because they're independent they're honest' that'll be like saying 'because he's the President he must be right', I believe each case should be judged on the individual circumstances.

[SimonM]

>>No attempt to explain the locking of the door<<

Simply not so. TW gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the door was lcoked.

Generally I think it would be nice if we could discuss, praise and occasionally criticise various ED establishments without matters degenerating closely to flame-wars.....

My opinion for what it is worth :))