Norman Court

[jamespetts]

Does anyone here know much about Norman Court on Lordship Lane? I am looking to buy a 1 or 2 bedroom flat in the area, and notice that some are for sale in this block at reasonable prices, but do not seem to be moving quickly. I have seen some oblique references in other threads from some time ago to this block not being popular, but it is not clear why. Is this a local authority block?

[steveo]

Norman Court

[jamespetts]

I see that it's on a 'bus route...

[Jeremy]

I quite like it. The flats are a good size, and its close to the park. The building is not unattractive.

On the flipside, its miles away from a station. And a purpose built (ex LA??) block on a main road is never going to be anyone's dream home, so they don't sell like hot cakes. And they probably won't rise in price as well as a smaller period conversion.

[jamespetts]

Interesting. I wonder why it is that people like period conversions so much? I am really not a fan of conversions at all: the fact that the thing is not being used for its intended purpose grates, and I always find that space is badly used and that trying to fit an entire dwelling in what was designed as half a dwelling is rather like trying to fit a quart into a pint pot.

*Edit*: Norman Court is apparently owned by the Norman Court (Lordship Lane) Management Company Limited, according to the Land Registry, so seemingly not a local authority block after all, unless Southwark sold the freehold (but that is not, I understand, what tends to happen with local authority blocks).

[Fliss]

I agree with you James, and prefer purpose built for the same reasons! I looked at a 2 bed flat in Norman Court about 2 and a half years ago, but it would have been a bit small for us (2 adults and a child) and we managed to find a flat in a purpose build block with a garage for storage. I think a flat at the front of Norman Court might be a bit noisy. I'm not sure how many flats there are in the block, as there is another part behind. The garden was a bit neglected when I looked. I wonder what the service charges are like. Also it does seem relatively cheap, considering how (ridiculously) expensive everything else in the area is now - there must be a reason...

[Jeremy]

Well if you like purpose built blocks and aren't too put off by the drawbacks (not near a station, main road/no parking) then you might have found the place for you.

[jamespetts]

Thank you very much. It seems to me that it is worth a look, at least: the noisiness can easily be measured (I have a decibel meter app on my smartphone) and the garden can be inspected. At least the flats seem to be double glazed, which might well deal with the noise issue. I shall book viewings of the two flats that I have seen for sale there.

As for the space: they have decidedly more space than the 1 bedroom converted pub that I am looking at in the alternative.

[Jah Lush]

It's just a short bus ride to Forest Hill station or East Dulwich (which will take a few minutes more).

[theboycj]

We've been in Norman Court for a while, and to be far it's pretty good going for the price in comparison to other 2 bed flats in East Dulwich.

Size of flats is pretty good 55m2 for a 2 bed double and you can get two double beds in both bedrooms

Parking, pretty good, you can park over on Court Lane which has ?1.5m houses so its pretty safe

Double Glazing knocks the noise issue on the head, you cant hear much even if you are road facing

The park is literally a stones throw away which is amazing and the horniman is around the corner

Transport.... 185 and the 176 take you to east dulwich station in approx 5 mins, buses every 10 mins, and denmark hill in about 10-15mins...if you have a zone 1,2 card its an all in price which is pretty good.

The reason why some of the flats may be cheap could be due to the condition, but if you factor in the buy price and the renovation cost I think you will still be doing well for that size of flat in east dulwich.

The flats are not ex LA and are privately owned. All in all, I can't fault the place thus far!

[The Minkey]

My partner rented a flat in Norman Court up until 12 years ago. It was at one point the most complained about privately owned block of flats in Southwark according to a council surveyor who came round at his request to check out the horrible damp/mould problem in his flat. It turned out the roof had been fitted incorrectly and didn't drain so there was water up there the whole year round. There is - or was - a spring under one side of the building. According to the guys who were attempting to divert it, the whole building was on the slide. This may all have been rectified but I'd be asking some serious questions if I were you prior to buying there.

[theboycj]

I looked into all these issues before buying too, the roof was replaced approx 6-7 years ago! Check the conditions of the flat thought as you will have to get work done on the flats, typically rewiring!

[jamespetts]

Thank you very much for that information: very helpful.

[aspidistra]

Lots of springs on that hill. I know the houses 'above' Norman Court have long suffered from subsidence.

[Bic Basher]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> On the flipside, its miles away from a station.

Not really, 5 mins bus ride to Forest Hill by bus or 15 walking. A brisk 20 min walk to North Dulwich along Court Lane and the Village. Plenty of bus connections also either directly outside or from Barry Road, Dulwich Common or Underhill Road which connect to East Dulwich, North Dulwich, West Dulwich, Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill.

[Jeremy]

Not my idea of fun BB. The location is a drawback IMO.

[NewWave]

Its hardly miles away from a station, there are busses that can get you to Forest Hill, East Dulwich, West Dulwich, and Denmark hill.

Or its a 20 min walk to Forest Hill stn

[jamespetts]

I don't mind a bit of a walk, but when I have to go somewhere early, every few minutes extra in bed is to be coveted. It is interesting that, to some central London destinations, this place is worse on the railway than Catford (where one can buy an actual house for the same money) during the day, but, of course, much quicker on the 'bus at night. It is also cyclable from central London, which Catford is not, and is a more pleasant area. Then there is the dinky one bed flat in a converted pub in Peckham with the stud walls and fake fireplace. These decisions are decidedly challenging for those who have the misfortune of not being millionaires.

[Jeremy]

If catching a bus (or walking 20 minutes) to the station is your idea of convenient, then fine. It's not mine.

[theboycj]

I agree, the bus stop is right opposite the building?! Literally takes 2 mins to be in east dulwich! Not really an inconvenience in my mind either!

[KidKruger]

Norman Court to ED station in 5 minutes - I don't think so.

[Bic Basher]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Norman Court to ED station in 5 minutes - I don't

> think so.

Certainly not to ED station, which is about 10-15 minutes depending on the traffic. It's much closer to Forest Hill by bus.

The bus stop outside Norman Court has some advantages, such as probably being the last bus stop where you can get a seat on the 176/185 in the morning peak before it gets crowded or travel the opposite way to Forest Hill station. It's hardly in a rail desert.

[jamespetts]

Well, there are compromises to be made. The more that I look, the more that it seems that what would really suit me is a nice inter-war private purpose built block (which might grandly be styled a "mansion block", but I am not sure the extent to which that term would strictly apply to places like Norman Court and Parklands in Peckham Rye), and this one seems quite spacious (indeed, more spacious than where I am renting now) and located in a rather pleasant part of the world, being East Dulwich.

Apparently, the tenants (who can be given 2 months' notice, I am told) are causing problems with viewings, but it seems that this is definitely worth considering seriously despite the transportational drawbacks. It would still be just about cyclable from central London, and the trains from Forest Hill go to London Bridge, Victoria, Croydon and Highbury and Islington amongst other useful destinations. Although the trains do not run at night, the 176 I believe passes this area and runs 24 hours a day.

[NewWave]

Yes, The 176 is a 24 hour route, or you can walk five mins to Barry Road?Dulwich Library and get a 12 bus that gets you to Oxford circus.

It takes me 40 mins door to door from Forest Hill to Bond st, and 20mins to Shorditch.

Have you looked at Taymount grange In Forest Hill? It sounds like what you are after and is much nearer to the station, Sainsburys etc.

A few of the estate agents around Forest hill seem to have apartments for sale there.

I'd avoid stud wall converted pub personally.

[jamespetts]

Hmm, interesting. The only ones that I can find available are this one bedroom flat:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/33275860

but it is more cramped inside than the Peckham pub conversion. and this tiny studio flat:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/33303756

The two bed in Norman Court would seem better value for space, though that 1 bed flat in Taymount Rise bears consideration (although it is single glazed, which is highly unfortunate). Thank you for that suggestion.

Edit: Having found that the freeholder is a company by the name of Freshwater, there are some concerns. This was written about the company http://www.allagents.co.uk/review/55900/:

"Well, I'm glad that's over.

I've sold my flat in Taymount Grange now and will soon never have to deal with Freshwater again. Both in buying, leaseholding and finally in selling, my experience is that they are exceedingly slow, their bills are very very high in comparison to others and they are very difficult to work with.

Having Freshwater or any of the other group companies associated with any property I wanted to deal with in future would put me off entirely. I would not recommend having anything to do with them in any way.

Taymount Grange SE23 in Forest Hill for example, looked to have been neglected for many years with minimal maintenance performed poorly. Then, in the space of three years, (I assume because of the neglect) major works had to be performed at the cost of many hundreds of thousands. Fortunately these are now all complete... just as I sell off and run away. I lost track eventually, but over the three last years I think the excess service charges on my one (of about 100 flats in the block) were about ?25,000. On top of the annual ?1800 gouging.

Avoid."

Edit: On calling the agent this morning, I was told that this one was under offer in any event.