Peckham history, architecture & design

[Eileen]

Many people might be surprised to discover that Peckham town centre has a lot of beautiful historic buildings. We often just don't see them because they are generally above eye level, above some awful shop fronts. Some of these buildings are significant historic assets. On the High Street there are some 17th and early 18th century reminders of the old village alongside later Georgian development. And there is much more. None of this has any protection, and could disappear any day. For more info see www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Historic_Peckham

On Wednesday tomorrow, The Peckham Society will be presenting ideas on how the buildings could be protected and be part of a conservation-led regeneration of the town centre, together with much better quality design standards for new buildings and shop fronts. Here is a topic worthy of the Forum's famous discussions - what is the value in our historic buildings? We don't need to look far for hugely successful examples of integrating the old with the new - just north of Peckham in Southwark in Bankside. But there are lots all over the country.

If you come along to the meeting on Wednesday 19th November 6.30-8.30pm, exhibition & refreshments 6pm at the Bussey building, 133 Rye Lane, opposite Blenheim Grove, directions: http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Bussey_Building , you can come back and stimulate the discussion in the Forum with your information and insights, and help Peckham town centre show its real beauty (eventually).

[PeckhamRose]

It really is important to go to this meeting, specially the few grumblers we have on this forum who go on about the negative side of Peckham.... Unfortunately I have to work!

[Ted Max]

I know I shouldn't, but Benedict O'Looney (local architect and historian quoted in the Buussey Building link).

That's fantastic.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I love that name, I want to marry him.

[Eileen]

Ted Max Wrote:

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> I know I shouldn't, but Benedict O'Looney (local

> architect and historian quoted in the Buussey

> Building link).

> That's fantastic.

For a moment, till I twigged the EDF humour, I thought you were one of Benny's many followers. He is a fantastic exponent of architecture history and people come from far and wide to his tours and talks... Worth coming to hear him and see his slides.

[Ted Max]

I know he is a serious person. But I'm only eight years old so couldn't help myself.

Would conservation area status help re-open up the station plaza - which seems to me the single most useful development that could happen in the specific area? Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems the chief benefit of CA status would be to open up funding streams currently unavailable.

Also, is this area thriving and full of small businesses and "faith groups", or is it in need of regeneration? Best to be clear, no?

You will probably tell me to come along tomorrow night and find out, but I'll be working I'm afraid.

[LuvPeckham]

Eileen Wrote:

> For a moment, till I twigged the EDF humour, I

> thought you were one of Benny's many followers. He

> is a fantastic exponent of architecture history

> and people come from far and wide to his tours and

> talks... Worth coming to hear him and see his

> slides.

Oh come on Eileen

You know what he means

[Eileen]

LuvPeckham Wrote:

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> Eileen Wrote:

> > For a moment, till I twigged the EDF humour, I

> > thought you were one of Benny's many followers.

> He

> > is a fantastic exponent of architecture history

> > and people come from far and wide to his tours

> and

> > talks... Worth coming to hear him and see his

> > slides.

>

> Oh come on Eileen

> You know what he means

I think I do and thought my comment indicated that, but I don't understand your comment!...

[Eileen]

Ted Max Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know he is a serious person. But I'm only eight

> years old so couldn't help myself.

>

> Would conservation area status help re-open up the

> station plaza - which seems to me the single most

> useful development that could happen in the

> specific area? Forgive me if I am wrong, but it

> seems the chief benefit of CA status would be to

> open up funding streams currently unavailable.

>

> Also, is this area thriving and full of small

> businesses and "faith groups", or is it in need of

> regeneration? Best to be clear, no?

>

> You will probably tell me to come along tomorrow

> night and find out, but I'll be working I'm

> afraid.

good points which deserve a considered response. will do this later.

[Ted Max]

Why, thank you.

LuvPeckham is quoting Dexys Midnight Runners at you. I don't know why.

It could be because he's a bit Too-Rye-Ay.

[lard]

I was looking the other day while walking down Rye Lane and some of the buildings are great. The train station is cool too, if you strip away the other bits hiding it.

There were a few old photos up at the checkouts in Morrisons too which showed how it was.

The architecture on Rye Lane really is wasted on the those that care less about things like that.

This has reminded me to make a trip to Manze's for some pie and mash. Forget grabbing a wrap and a cappucino in Starbuck's with your kids, take them down to get pie and mash and show them some history.

[Eileen]

Ted Max Wrote:

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> Would conservation area status help re-open up the

> station plaza - which seems to me the single most

> useful development that could happen in the

> specific area?

Not directly as the only real obstacle to the creation of the piazza is the cost of buying out the long leases that Network Rail were stupid enough to sell over 20 years ago for a peppercorn rent. The station building finally acquired listed status earlier this year and so fits with the creation of the piazza to return the area to its original open aspect and transform the feeling in that part of Rye Lane. The Council will later this week be publishing the ideas and proposals on how to achieve that and I will post the links when they are available.

>Forgive me if I am wrong, but it

> seems the chief benefit of CA status would be to

> open up funding streams currently unavailable.

Yes this is definitely one benefit for the town centre as a whole, and also for the renovation of the station buildings. But CA status would also attract investment by lifting the quality and attractions of a locality. We will learn more at the Peckham Society meeting of successful conservation-led regeneration elswhere.

> Also, is this area thriving and full of small

> businesses and "faith groups",

It looks like this refers to the description of one site in the town centre - the site behind Rye Lane and Bournemouth Rd - whereas the Peckham Society campaign for a Conservation Area, and the meeting tomorrow evening, covers the whole of Town Centre. See http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Historic_Peckham The town centre covers more retail industry (and even more faith groups) than the creative enterprises which increasingly cluster in the Copeland Cultural Quarter (CCQ) between Rye Lane and Bournemouth Road.

The CCQ has already begun its own self regeneration through the arrival over the last 10 to 15 years of new cultural enterprises, from individual artists, to the new Hannah Barry Gallery and the new CLF music and arts enterprise. Yes the site also has several faith groups too as part of the huge upsurge of such faith groups looking for accommodation all over the borough. But the main trend on this site is the continuing arrival of a variety of secular cultural enterprises. This area, beginning to be known as the Copeland Cultural Quarter is one half of the 6/7 acre site designated for demolition for the tram depot see http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Visions_for_Peckham#The_Copeland_Cultural_Quarter and

http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Copeland_Cultural_Quarter

> or is it in need of

> regeneration? Best to be clear, no?

Well it is probably both - organically reviving and renewing itself as many places do in response to changing social and economic needs, as well as needing regeneration to recover from the blight imposed for almost 4 years of designation for demolition for the tram depot. Lifting that designation would enable investment to resume to modernise the Bussey building and the rest of the industrial site.

>

> You will probably tell me to come along tomorrow

> night and find out, but I'll be working I'm

> afraid.

No I wouldn't say that... it is why we are trying to disseminate the information in a variety of forms as many people are not able to come to evening meetings. What we hope is that there can be an informed conversation in various forms and forums about the historic assets throughout Peckham Town Centre, and how they might be best combined with the modern social and economic trends emerging in the area. The Council's work on the Peckham Area Action Plan (PAAP) is the context for all this. It is in an informal stage just now when we can try to understand the issues and work out what we think in conversation with each other. It is preparation for the official consultations when people have to give their final statutory views around next Spring on just about everything, of which conservation and related matters is just one part. see http://www.southwark.gov.uk/futurepeckham

[Ted Max]

Thanks very much, Eileen. Appreciate you taking the time, especially at such a late hour. Will be interesting to see how things go.

Oh, and piazza not plaza. Noted.

[PeckhamRose]

Went past Greenwich station the other day, it really does look lovely all opened out - just think - Peckham Rye station could look like that.

OK back from work - how did the meeting go?

[Lewis]

I was unable to attend the meeting due to a previous commitment but as the Cllr responsible for heritage I am hoping to see the Peckham Society to discuss outcomes.

Lewis

[Eileen]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> Went past Greenwich station the other day, it

> really does look lovely all opened out - just

> think - Peckham Rye station could look like that.

>

> OK back from work - how did the meeting go?

Excellent. there were about 30 of us and we had a great discussion about the role of Conservation Areas in leading and stimulating regeneration. Some key things were coming out for Peckham about the Council's Plannning Core Strategy consultation which ends on 15 December. Will post something up in next few days when there is a moment to catch breath... In meantime if you want to know about the Core Strategy visit http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourServices/planningandbuildingcontrol/planningpolicy/localdevelopmentframework/corestrategy.html and tell us what you think it means...

[Eileen]

Lewis Wrote:

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> I was unable to attend the meeting due to a

> previous commitment but as the Cllr responsible

> for heritage I am hoping to see the Peckham

> Society to discuss outcomes.

> > Lewis

Thanks Lewis. This is great. We have lots to discuss and will be in touch.

[Hollybush]

Perhaps we should be more honest about where we are and make plans for a PLACE or a SQUARE rather than a piazza etc. What is wrong with using English terms? Foreign terms can sound pretentious, like the 'Centrale' development in Croydon which noone seems to know whether to put a French accent on for!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Leaving aside for a moment just what constitutes "English", you do have a point there Hollybush. One of my bugbears when I go back to Exeter is the relatively recent development on the south side of the quay - which they have called Piazza Terracina - which is just mind-boggling in it's awfulness, both in name and contents

Some time back on this forum, Louisa posted some cracking pictures of Peckham Rye station (which I imagine can be found on the websites lined to on this thread) and it truly is fantastic. But just how exactly does one get rid of Lloyds TSB, Jenny's and the rest?

[Eileen]

Hollybush Wrote:

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> Perhaps we should be more honest about where we

> are and make plans for a PLACE or a SQUARE rather

> than a piazza etc. What is wrong with using

> English terms? Foreign terms can sound

> pretentious, like the 'Centrale' development in

> Croydon which noone seems to know whether to put a

> French accent on for!

Good point. For some reason since we started seriously working on this idea 4 years ago of opening up the space in front of the station it got called a piazza and it stuck. Perhaps we should refer to it as the station square.

[Eileen]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Some time back on this forum, Louisa posted some

> cracking pictures of Peckham Rye station (which I

> imagine can be found on the websites lined to on

> this thread) and it truly is fantastic.

Two pictures of the station:

* after it was built.

* as it is today...

[Eileen]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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But just

> how exactly does one get rid of Lloyds TSB,

> Jenny's and the rest?

Not fast, and sensitively. You will find some answers to this in the Council's report 'Peckham Rye Station: the Case for Change'. It was launched in Peckham yesterday November 21 by the Leader of the Council Nick Stanton with the support of Harriet Harman MP, Valerie Shawcross, GLA Member, and members of Southwark Council, and various other assorted bods,and in the presence of Network Rail owners of the land and property in question. The report explains the ownership issues, the scope for transformation, and how the economics make a genuine business case, and has lots of pictures. You can download a copy from http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourCommunity/NunheadPeckhamRye The steady work of all parties concerned will continue, to get this achieved: step by step. The last breakthrough was last year when all the levels of elected representatives from MP, GLA, Southwark Council, ward coucnillors of ALL the political parties agreed.

[PeckhamRose]

Just browsing through Southwark and Peckham's website, can anyone truly tell me any major idea or plan that an ordinary member of the public had, who put it up for consideration and then which was adopted? Seems to me Southwark and all councils/governments start a plan, then ask us our opinions to make them look good and open, when already the plans are taking shape and they already know what they will be doing. Peckham Area Action Plan for starters. I know I am being cynical, but it's borne from experience of living in this council for so long.