PCSO's stopping and fining cyclists (on ED Road)

[blinder999]

Youtube - PCSOs cycling on the pavement - bang 'em up

[beef]

Do those cameras actually work Sean? Are people employed to watch them all day? I think they may just be an unheeded visual deterrent. Of the three vehicles that jumped the lights, the last was a bus which proceeded to park in the box junction. The psco's were back there this afternoon, doing sod all, while I was nearly murdered by a FC in a DHL van speeding, and I do mean speeding, through the red. It had to break violently at the other end of the junction due to the cue of traffic. What did the pcso's do? You guessed it. Nothing. A couple of weeks ago they stopped and fined a bloke for cycling on the north side of the common where the footpath is a round four meters wide, the five of us (yes it took three pcso's to do the job) being the only people there. I feel they may be creating easy work for the pco's to justify their existence.

DaveR, you're quite right and I applaud you for your good sense.

[Nero]

My word, what a lot of passion/bile.

A tot on a bike is fine. Everyone else should be on the road. Don't think you're exempt because the bus is too big, or your offspring too timid, or the roadworks too unnavigable. Just stick to the rules and ride on the road, the same way you probably adhere to all other laws, like not committing matricide, defrauding the Inland Revenue or pretending you've got a PhD when it's really just your 25 metres.

Any comments gratefully received!

Nero.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Surely you mean 25 yards? I have one of those. And I can plunge to the bottom of a pool in my jim jams and retrieve a brick.

[Gubodge]

Sue said "If they can't handle cycling on the road they shouldn't be cycling, full stop."

Does this apply to my four year old, too?

Cycling on pavements is illegal. Fortunately the CPS tend to take a more sensible view than many people, and will only prosecute if the cyclist has been reckless. I would not dream of pavement cycling on my commute, but when acccompanying my daughter on her bike, with my other child in the bike seat, I do. BUT...I have taught the 4 yr old that if there is a pedestrian coming towards her she must stop and let them past, and she must not over take one going in the same direction unless they have seen her and stood aside. On busy stretches she and I both get off and push.

As an (apart from that) law abiding cyclist, I think the PCSO's couldn't have picked a better place to stake out. It drives me bonkers when coming down the side of the Rye to see half the cyclists in front of me jumping on to the pavement purely to get past the queue of traffic to the front of the lights. If there is no safe way to overtake on the road, Stop in the f*&$ing queue and wait your turn like all the other road users! Twunts.

[Sue]

Gubodge Wrote:

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> Sue said "If they can't handle cycling on the road

> they shouldn't be cycling, full stop."

>

> Does this apply to my four year old, too?

>

>xxxxxxx

Well I have mixed feelings on this.

My daughter and her husband are very keen cyclists, my granddaughters no doubt will soon have their own bikes instead of being in the trailer, and then what?

I shall enquire of them when next I see them - but as a pedestrian, I'd say kids on bikes on the pavement are potentially as much a menace to pedestrians as adults if not properly supervised (which of couse I'm sure your four year old is :) )

[Gubodge]

Why of course!

[DaveR]

Incidentally, in light of this, on a previous post:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)"

I would question whether an enforcment policy, or practice, which did not broadly accord with this guidance, would actually be lawful.

[uplander]

I'm amazed that someone has spotted CSO's doing anything!

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I'm challenging a fixed penalty given to my daughter yesterday by a pcs bloody o for cycling the distance from the cashpoint to the road very slowly and carefully.

They ended up with a van full of pcso's and a car with two pcso's and a police sergeant threatening to arrest her because she argued with them and called her mum to find out what her legal position was.

One of the pcso's even suggested she just ignore the penalty notice.

Well spent tax payers money, don't you think?

[bawdy-nan]

That's awful and totally against the spirit and purpose of the facility to issue fines.

[Nero]

Your daughter is special to you, but to the coppers she is A N Other. I agree the response was OTT, but she's done wrong. Accept it. Why could she not have pushed the bike, only to get on it once on the road? She'll learn that rules are made for everyone, despite what she might like to think.

[lozzyloz]

Soft target. Easy way of earning points and meeting crime enforcement targets.

I'd like to see a bunch of PCO's stand on the corner of Atlantic and Brixton Rd and attempt to clamp down on pavement pedalling and red light jumping. Not a chance.

CWALD good luck in getting it overturned. I'm sure you will.

[ruffers]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm challenging a fixed penalty given to my

> daughter yesterday by a pcs bloody o for cycling

> the distance from the cashpoint to the road very

> slowly and carefully.

>

> They ended up with a van full of pcso's and a car

> with two pcso's and a police sergeant threatening

> to arrest her because she argued with them and

> called her mum to find out what her legal position

> was.

>

> One of the pcso's even suggested she just ignore

> the penalty notice.

>

> Well spent tax payers money, don't you think?

They gave a nine year old a fixed penalty????

What advice did you give her?

[AllforNun]

i got stopped by 2 pcso's " i told them to take my number plate" then peddled off i lost them somewhere behind Peckham library, Quickly picking up 2 donughts from the bakers near by I rode back to find them. You should have seen their faces when i got this school boy to run over to them and give them the bag, one even stuck his fingers up at me, the cheek of it.

[Dez]

Depends on the cyclists and how they behave. The posh young West Dulwich mums and their kids tend to ring their bells when approaching and then say 'thank you' as they pass.

[Clinker]

Moos Wrote:

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> So, who is allowed to ride a bicycle on the

> pavements?

>

> Obviously kids are - up to what age? Who else?

It depends on the pavement, some allow cyclists and Pedestrians... I have been yelled at so often for cycling on the pavement when it was perfectly within my right to... (ie. has the sign showing a bike and a person...)

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Ruffers - I have more than one daughter - this one was over 16!

[Amelie]

Can I make a few suggestions?

Anyone who has nearly been knocked down by schoolchildren in identifiable uniforms should write to the Head Teacher, stating what happened and where and asking for the Head Teacher to remind the schoolchildren that they should cycle considerately. You should also remind the Head Teacher that their pupils are breaking the law and doing so whilst wearing the school's uniform.

PCSO's who abuse their authority should be reported to the Borough Commander of Southwark, again state what happened and where and ask the Borough Commander to formally reprimand the PCSO's in question. If you are dissatisfied with his response escalate your complaint.

And I would personally be grateful if the parents who let their children cycle through the people waiting at the bus stop at the junction of Overhill Road and Lordship Lane like some gigantic game of skittles would stop doing so. The pavement there is not wide enough for pedestrians and cyclists, people queuing for the bus have the right to be on the pavement at that point child cyclists do not.

[SteveT]

It seems to me that the PCSO's are taking the soft option, nicking child cyclists, and cigar butt droppers (SeanMLow).

I would rather they spent their policing time more "effectively" dealing with difficult neighbours, whistling stalkers and such like.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SteveT Wrote:

It seems to me that the PCSO's are taking the soft option...

I would rather they spent their policing time more "effectively" dealing with whistling stalkers ...

This is hard to effectively police. There was the recent story in Dulwich of a PCSO who realised this Guy was blatantly following and stalking this Young Lady for several days but at no point did he cross the line and actually whistle:X...so pointless in pulling him up,thus far.(6)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Steve - how do you know they aren't dealing with more important stuff as well? If they have prevented a more serious crime, say a burglary, the perp is unlikely to come on a place like this and say:

"Hi I'm new here but I wondered what you guys think. I was minding my own business just doing a job like, when these plastic police came over and gave it the large one.... have any other innocent burglars in the area been hassled by these do-gooders? It's PC gone mad it is... "

[Tony.London Suburbs]

PCSO's are the eyes and the ears of The Metropolitan Police.

[lard]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Steve - how do you know they aren't dealing with

> more important stuff as well? If they have

> prevented a more serious crime, say a burglary,

> the perp is unlikely to come on a place like this

> and say:

>

> "Hi I'm new here but I wondered what you guys

> think. I was minding my own business just doing a

> job like, when these plastic police came over and

> gave it the large one.... have any other innocent

> burglars in the area been hassled by these

> do-gooders? It's PC gone mad it is... "

Even if they had dealt with 90% of the burglaries etc, which I doubt they have, they should still be dealing with the other 10% rather than this type of "crime"

Unless you are suggesting that they had finished all the other crime in London and were now getting down to this lower level stuff??

To be honest I could think of a whole list of stuff I would rather have them doing rather than ticketing cyclists.

[SeanMacGabhann]

So who do you want dealing with the low level crime and stuff? I would like to live somewhere that people didn't treat as a rubbish bin (re: litter) for example. Do countries with low levels of litter have every serious criminal behind bars? Or shall we just let things go to pot until the (unattainable) day when every criminal is behind bars?