what was the gardens...who/what next?

[Cheryl_M]

jennyh Wrote:

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> I understand the comments regarding cafes catering

> for kids but I think part of the reason that so

> many of the cafes are over-run with buggies is

> because the area is lacking in a space that is big

> enough and that caters specifically for that

> market.

> As a parent of 2 young kids I hate having to

> squeeze into small places that are inappropriate

> such as Blue Mountain, (formerly) Lucas and Duck

> Egg because you know that its not really geared up

> for hordes of children and you have to shuffle

> around apologising for your buggies being in the

> way etc. I welcome a big space that has been well

> thought out and meets the needs of the huge

> population of young kids in East Dulwich and would

> imagine that if it is a success it will free up

> all the other cafes for people who don't have kids

> to sit peacefully or work etc. All in all it has

> to be a good thing, particularly because the old

> cafe was rarely busy and didnt work. As someone

> said before, its great that it is being used!

Very well said :)

[ortuke]

Try le chandelier if you want peace - they don't really encourage kids I'm there so it remains a mostly adult only area I believe and the food is nice too...

[Cedges]

They don't really encourage people full stop, that's the problem.

ortuke Wrote:

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> Try le chandelier if you want peace - they don't

> really encourage kids I'm there so it remains a

> mostly adult only area I believe and the food is

> nice too...

[marjies]

Agreed! Feels more like you've stumbled into the One O'Clock Club than a cafe in too many places :(

[first mate]

le Chandelier is fab and very people friendly and serves the best tea, coffee and cakes around. However they are not tolerant of buggies or rampaging children...as someone else has mentioned the space is too small for that and since everyone pays the same for their chosen repast it seems fair too. Unfortunately some mummies get very snippy about this and choose to trash the reputation of the place.

[Louisa]

What fabulous news. All the buggy brigade with their screaming kids can now go here and free up the other caf?s for the rest of the population of ED who are sick of rampaging kids when we want some peace and quiet whilst nursing out coffee and cakes.

Louisa.

[Nigello]

Why not either not come out with a buggy, once in a while, or leave the buggy outside? I haven't heard of any buggy-snatchers in SE22. It's unrealistic to expect that each parent has a "right" to bring a buggy inside a small venue. I wouldn't dream of bringing a similar sized amount of luggage or purchases etc out of sheer practicality and consideration to others.

[NewWave]

Louisa Wrote:

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> What fabulous news. All the buggy brigade with

> their screaming kids can now go here and free up

> the other caf?s for the rest of the population of

> ED who are sick of rampaging kids when we want

> some peace and quiet whilst nursing out coffee and

> cakes.

>

> Louisa.

Well said!

Especially as every time I see the mummy-buggy brigade they appear to sit for hours nursing a cup of coffee and a shared slice of cake, Cant be much of a money spinner for the local cafes having them in.

My other half and I often manage to get through a full english breakfast and coffees and be out of a cafe within half an hour where-as the tables full of the mums and buggies who were there when we arrived are still sat with their empty cups gossiping when we leave.

One of the worst instances of this was recently when I went for a quiet lunch at Dulwich picture gallery, I sat outside and ordered my meal, a mum came with a buggy and sat at the table next to mine, to be joined very shortly after by 4 other women with babies and toddlers, who had chairs moved to join their friend, high chairs brought out, and then proceeded to take out tupperware boxes containing their own food, pots of yoghurt then call the waitress and order one slice of cake, a pot of tea and ask for spoons and forks to eat their own food.

Not only was my meal disturbed by the noise and being hemmed in by buggies and high chairs but despite the waitress coming several times to ask if they wished to order from the lunch menu (it was a busy warm day at 1pm)nothing further was ordered.

There was a kind of arrogance and disregard for the other diners and the restaurant concerned.

Frankly I think offering a dedicated place for them to go can only be a good thing.

[Cedges]

I'm not a 'mummy' and I get treated awfully in there. Its hardly just that demographic they seem to dislike.

[minder]

Where is that cedges? DPG? Venues have got a bit lost on this thread!

Think it was mentioned on page 1 that Gymboree will be operating from the Gardens pretty soon.

[niwi]

As a mum to a toddler I think it is great news that The Gardens is going to used and that it will cater for the fast growing ED population of parents with children. I find it the most unrelaxing thing to go to a cafe with an active toddler as I am so concerned not to disrupt anyone around us so welcome somewhere that I can get a decent coffee, meet friends and let the little one burn off some energy without this worry.

I do wish however that the people of ED would not always parent/child bash on the forum. We are all at different stages of life with different priorities and it would be nice if we can co-exist pleasantly.

[Jeremy]

niwi Wrote:

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> I do wish however that the people of ED would not

> always parent/child bash on the forum. We are all

> at different stages of life with different

> priorities and it would be nice if we can co-exist pleasantly.

As a new-ish parent myself I can see both sides. I can totally understand people getting frustrated when they want to find a place for a quiet lunch or drink, and there's buggies everywhere, kids running around, and crying babies. Perhaps we need more places than either cater to one market or the other, instead of every pub and cafe trying to find a middle ground to keep everyone happy (and failing)!

The problem is... intentionally opening a non-familiy-friendly place in ED would be a bit of a punt, to say the least...

[CocoC]

Well said!

Especially as every time I see the mummy-buggy brigade they appear to sit for hours nursing a cup of coffee and a shared slice of cake, Cant be much of a money spinner for the local cafes having them in.

My other half and I often manage to get through a full english breakfast and coffees and be out of a cafe within half an hour where-as the tables full of the mums and buggies who were there when we arrived are still sat with their empty cups gossiping when we leave.

"One of the worst instances of this was recently when I went for a quiet lunch at Dulwich picture gallery, I sat outside and ordered my meal, a mum came with a buggy and sat at the table next to mine, to be joined very shortly after by 4 other women with babies and toddlers, who had chairs moved to join their friend, high chairs brought out, and then proceeded to take out tupperware boxes containing their own food, pots of yoghurt then call the waitress and order one slice of cake, a pot of tea and ask for spoons and forks to eat their own food.

Not only was my meal disturbed by the noise and being hemmed in by buggies and high chairs but despite the waitress coming several times to ask if they wished to order from the lunch menu (it was a busy warm day at 1pm)nothing further was ordered.

There was a kind of arrogance and disregard for the other diners and the restaurant concerned.

Frankly I think offering a dedicated place for them to go can only be a good thing.

Tis a bit strongly worded in my humble opinion NewWave. Was the food theirs or their babies'/toddlers'? If the latter then it's perfectly acceptable to take your own baby/kiddie food unless you want to feed them on cake. I hear you about disruption and sorry about that - but despite appearances - most mums and dads are acutely aware of it and will try wherever possible to minimise it. Also the 'dedicated place for them to go' sentiment feels a bit off. Yes I'm a mum but I'm also a woman who probably likes going to the same places you do for good coffee, good food and good company. Can't we all play nicely?

[CocoC]

Sorry, the first para above should be in quotation marks (as they're not my words) but I don't know how to do it. Probably because I spend too much time nursing a cup of coffee and slice of cake at a too-cramped caf? somewhere.

[Sue]

CocoC Wrote:

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> Sorry, the first para above should be in quotation

> marks (as they're not my words) but I don't know

> how to do it. Probably because I spend too much

> time nursing a cup of coffee and slice of cake at

> a too-cramped caf? somewhere.

xxxxx

:))

CocoC, if you click on "Quote this message" instead of "Reply to this message", the post you are quoting will automatically come up in your post (as yours has above mine).

You can then delete any parts of the quote you don't want to include.

Hope that helps.

[CocoC]

It does help! Thanks Sue :)

[LadyDeliah]

My problem with the mummy-buggy-brigade as they seem to have been named now, is that many of them remind me of the women who, 28 years ago sneered at me and made judgements because I was a young mother.

There was no thought at that time, of making things easier for mother's with young children to stay socially involved in their communities. These women wanted untidy young children's issues kept out of their way. They had important things to do, such as make money to buy garbage they didn't need, but which let them know they'd arrived.

Now that they have had kids, the same people who made no allowances for me or my contemporaries, appear to want everyone to notice how clever they are because they are now parents and their wants/wishes are expected to be catered for by everyone else.

I don't really feel like catering for you or your kids. You didn't care about the mothers who came before you and the issues they faced.

You need to stop acting like you are important just because you had a kid. This happens thousands of times every day to women all over the world. Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on with it.

[Louisa]

Amen to that LD.

Louisa.

[Dopamine1979]

What Jeremy said.

[CocoC]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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>

> There was no thought at that time, of making

> things easier for mother's with young children to

> stay socially involved in their communities.

I agree

> I don't really feel like catering for you or your

> kids. You didn't care about the mothers who came

> before you and the issues they faced.

Disagree. How do you know what I do or don't care about?

>

> You need to stop acting like you are important

> just because you had a kid. This happens thousands

> of times every day to women all over the world.

> Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on with

> it.

Couldn't agree more. I'm not important for having had a kid. I've no desire to be 'looked at.' I just want to get a bloody coffee from time to time. And where I go, my 7 month old comes too. Unless you'd rather I left her at home on her own?

Anyway, this is all going off topic. I will leave it there.

[EPB]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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>" ... the women who, 28 years ago sneered

> at me and made judgements because I was a young

> mother..."

I doubt whether many of today's young mums were able, 28 years years ago, to sneer at anybody!

>

[Jeremy]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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> Now that they have had kids, the same people who

> made no allowances for me or my contemporaries,

> appear to want everyone to notice how clever they are

You realise that they're not actually the same people, right? You seem awfully pissed off with them...

[LadyDeliah]

With so many first sproggers round here in their 40's, many may well be, but even the ones in their 30's, I'd guess looked down on anyone who became a mum under the age of 20, before they had their little miracle (some probably still do).

Something that indicates to me that there are still these prejudices in the current crop of mummy-buggy-brigade is when I'm out with my 7 year old granddaughter and someone who assumed she was my daughter is hardly able to hide the look of horror when I explain that she's my granddaughter.

It's happened so often, I'm developing a barely controllable punch-them-in-the-mouth urge as soon as I spot them.

[LadyDeliah]

Ps, I'm lumping all parents with primary age kids in the mummy-buggy-brigade, even though they no longer plough into people with bugaboos. It seems that these have been traded up for scooters, but my definition is wide.

[DuncanW]

Wow LD that's quite a judgemental and indeed prejudiced rant against such a widely disparate group of people.

How do you know what all these people are thinking by the way?