dulwich primary care centre is closing DR Sarma's practice

[littleone]

Here here lameduck

[Bic Basher]

Looking at NHS Choices, based on reviews The Hambleden Clinic at Denmark Hill and 306 Medical Centre in Lordship Lane are the closest with decent reviews. The Gardens by Peckham Rye Common has shrunk it's catchment area to the surrounding streets.

306 has an online address checker which shows all of SE22 is covered and part of SE5, while Hambleden doesn't have an online check to see if you're covered.

[Tigres Pride]

Only just heard about the meeting that was held at 5pm tonight. Can anyone please tell us what information was given out to patients of the surgery?

[KalamityKel]

Due to poor turn out the meeting that was schedule to take place yesterday evening did not happen. Yes it was late notice for people but you can't blame those at the surgery for trying.

Comments like littleones referring to not accessing information about the meeting until late due to being a work and such is not helpful. Most of us work and can't just drop things last minute. There's no point complaining you were not involved. You could help yourselves - call the surgery, express your interest in wanting to help in whatever way you can. MAKE yourselves heard instead of expecting others to run around doing the work for you.

I had only found out about the meeting shortly before posting on here that is was taking place - directly from the surgery. I also was unable to attend and I'm only passing on information as it is being shared.

BicBasher attached is a list of surgeries being advised to join. I have concerns that although there is "choice" I'm not convinced it will be easy to simply switch. It was already identified there wasn't a suitable surgery that could take all Dr Sarma's patients in bulk so the other surgeries are expected to absorb these patients - what if a large number wanted to register at a particular surgery over others. They wouldn't be able to cope resulting in patients being refused and having to go elsewhere which could then be a similar occurrence across the board. Patients being pushed from pillar to post. Not particularly fair.

[lameduck]

Hi

I am sorry to hear meeting did not happen

I also like littleone didnt find out till gone 7pm when I got home

when I got access to the internet.

and Kalamity I admire your attitude call the surgery etc

but over 1600 people have read this thread so far, what if we all phoned

how would the sick get through ?

The staff knew sometime ago, so did the doctor, we could have been warned- advised

to go elsewhere before the stampede.

I am personally worried about this,I am not impressed by any of the surgeries local

[ I read the forums opinions ] I need due to medication to re-locate fast.

But how do the old oldies who are immobile fare

to quote littleone

too little too late

[lameduck]

There is a petition running at the surgery.

We need to sign this.Staff told me no meeting last night I quote [" what meeting!"]

staff unenthusiastic, no sign or anything either in or outside surgery

this lot is going down without a fight

[KalamityKel]

I'm not really sure what is going any more. A meeting was definitely attempted to be arranged last night.

Could be a case of certain members of staff are trying to drum up support whilst others are not. I really don't know.

I'm just feeding info to here as and when I hear.

[maxxi]

lameduck Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is a petition running at the surgery.

> We need to sign this.Staff told me no meeting last

> night I quote [" what meeting!"]

> staff unenthusiastic, no sign or anything either

> in or outside surgery

> this lot is going down without a fight

Went there today and the receptionists seemed very up for a fight and keen to get the petition signed. They said they had not accepted it was a done deal, and were hopeful something could be done. My local pharmacist told me she had also been down to sign the petition (so should anyone who can get down there) and was spreading the word, so even though it's late there's still a fight.

[Tigres Pride]

I have been looking through NHS England's site, and came across the attached Summary Document entitled "Putting Patients First", It makes interesting reading especially the end section "What we stand for", particularly in view of the fact that we were neither consulted on nor informed about any impending closure until now when they claim it's a done deal.

Can I suggest that as well as signing the petition, we, the patients, also bombard NHS England with emails voicing our dissatisfaction with the way this closure has been handled and our worries about registering with other surgeries in the area given the poor reviews that have been written about them on this forum?

[KalamityKel]

Some will notice the South London Press featured part cover of this matter on the front page of today's issue. It's not a particularly great piece of writing and doesn't cover any of the issue concerned and gives the impression the PPG had prior knowledge to no of the closing of the surgery which is certainly not the case.

The surgery and other supporters are keen to have accurate and more coverage from other publications and news avenues. If you would be interested in sharing your views and even be involved in a group picture (apparently we're more likely to get a bigger section with a picture) please drop me a PM so we can organise a suitable time for all. Obviously time is tight for all those involved but support is greatly appreciated.

[lameduck]

Hi All

good for you Kalamity

I have emailed local mps, am waiting for their responses

count me in, in your picture, whatever

we should all back you

this is a good surgery we should try to keep it

[KalamityKel]

Sabrina Harley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey everyone

>

> Found out today that when Dr Sarma retires on 31st

> of July the NHS instead of getting a new doctor to

> replace him are going to close the surgery!

> Not only that but all the remaining staff are

> being made redundant instead of being transferred

> to another surgery.

>

> There is a petition to sign on the reception desk

> and there will be a peaceful demonstration to

> appeal the closure.

>

> Please if you are a patient there, or even if

> you're not but don't agree with the closure, take

> 5 mins to pop in and sign the petition

>

> Thanks for reading

> Sabrina

Just to keep the info rolling in the right place...

[lameduck]

Hi All

still waiting for reply to email from Tessa Jowell and Harriet Harman RE this closure, also emailed

local mayor and health authority.

seems no one is interested, and have heard nothing from James Barber.

According to S.L.Press there are 2400 on his books

Thats a lot of missplaced patients

Maybe if we all bombard these MP's who are supposed to looking after our interests

with emails. they may answer them.

the duck

[first mate]

Note that on the list of alternative GP practices, up first (by virtue of proximity) is the disaster that is MGMP- I'm sure Concordia/MGMP would love to plump up their numbers since, or so it would seem, patients have been leaving in their droves over the years. Hmmm.

[maxxi]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Note that on the list of alternative GP practices,

> up first (by virtue of proximity) is the disaster

> that is MGMP- I'm sure Concordia/MGMP would love

> to plump up their numbers since, or so it would

> seem, patients have been leaving in their droves

> over the years. Hmmm.

Just to reiterate - I left MG to go to Dr Sarma and would rather have a monkey with a stick try to cure my ailments than go back there. When and if the axe falls that is the LAST place anyone who cares about their health should think of.

[lameduck]

Hi All

recieved one answer

still waiting for Tessa Harriet and James

Dear Duck

Thank you for your email which was forwarded to me today.

Unfortunately, the Local Authority does not have control over GP's surgeries in Southwark.

Healthwatch Southwark is currently doing some work on this issue, and they may be able to offer further assistance?

http://www.healthwatchsouthwark.co.uk/

Yours sincerely

Jennifer Chambers

Investigator - Social Services

Floor 2, Hub 2

Office: 0207 525 5917

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.southwark.gov.uk

Postal Address

Southwark Council

PO Box 64529

LONDON

SE1P 5LX

[first mate]

The NHS has been slowly disassembled and put back together in such a confusing way that even those within the system are not quite sure who is in charge of what; so where do the powers of local GP's/CCG's stop and those of NHS England begin? Who does decide what is in the interests of local patients? I thought that the whole idea of the new system was to put more power into the hands of patients not for major decisions, like the closure of a surgery (against patient wishes) to be made by some centralised body.

Reminds me of the 'free' schools where most decisions seem to go through one person in the Govt.

[Zebedee Tring]

First mate, I thought that it was obvious that Orwell type newspeak applies here. To use the slogan first featured in that rather boring song by John Lennon, "power to the people" means "much less power to the people".

And to continue the Lennon analogy, "imagine no possessions" means "imagine lots more possessions for the chaps who have given our party plenty of dosh".

[Tigres Pride]

I have been sending emails to NHS England and have today received the response below:

Thank you for your enquiry dated 12th June 2014.

In response, I would advise that you contact your local NHS England Area Team via the details below:

NHS South London Area Team

Southside

105 Victoria Street

London

SE1E 6QT

0207 932 3700

I hope this information is helpful.

Kind regards,

George Fuller

Customer Contact Centre Support Assistant

NHS England

Tel: 0300 3 11 22 33

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.england.nhs.uk

Address: NHS England, PO Box 16738, REDDITCH, B97 9PT

I have already passed this information on to James Barber via email and fully intend to start ringing NHS South London Area Team tomorrow and to keep pestering them till I get some sort of response.

[maxxi]

In response to emails I sent to healthwatch Southwark and NHS England I've had the following in reply (from the latter via the former)

In reply to my asking why the practice was closing rather than being taken up by another GP:

Dr Sarma holds a PMS contract this is the (provision of a set of services which are specified in the actual GP contract ), which is commissioned under a local arrangement. GPs that hold a PMS contact may ask NHS England, upon retirement, to take on a partner as part of their retirement plan. This allows a single handed GP practice to be maintained in the longer term. Dr Sarma did not request to take on a partner at the East Dulwich Medical Centre, and handed back his contract to NHS England.

And in reply to why patients were being palmed off onto other practices with no say in the matter despite local information seeming to stress these other practices were over-subscribed and waiting times for appointments and/or getting phone calls answered were already excessive:

NHS England looked at three options for the contract and patient list:

whether there is sufficient capacity and interest in the local area for patients to register with neighbouring GP practices

to procure the existing patient list

to place the list under temporary arrangements

In this case, a review found that there were eleven alternate GP practices that were within 1.2 miles of East Dulwich Medical Centre. All of these practices had capacity for additional patients and wished to accept Dr Sarma?s patients.

So it would appear that the eagerness of the other practices to 'accept' a large influx of new patients was the deciding factor. Makes you wonder how 'capacity' is decided and how many patients these practices have to have before they consider themselves full.

[lameduck]

still waiting for Harriet Harman, Tessa Jowell

and James Barber

[KalamityKel]

maxxi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In response to emails I sent to healthwatch

> Southwark and NHS England I've had the following

> in reply (from the latter via the former)

>

> In reply to my asking why the practice was closing

> rather than being taken up by another GP:

>

> Dr Sarma holds a PMS contract this is the

> (provision of a set of services which are

> specified in the actual GP contract ), which is

> commissioned under a local arrangement. GPs that

> hold a PMS contact may ask NHS England, upon

> retirement, to take on a partner as part of their

> retirement plan. This allows a single handed GP

> practice to be maintained in the longer term. Dr

> Sarma did not request to take on a partner at the

> East Dulwich Medical Centre, and handed back his

> contract to NHS England.

>

>

> And in reply to why patients were being palmed off

> onto other practices with no say in the matter

> despite local information seeming to stress these

> other practices were over-subscribed and waiting

> times for appointments and/or getting phone calls

> answered were already excessive:

>

> NHS England looked at three options for the

> contract and patient list:

>

> whether there is sufficient capacity and

> interest in the local area for patients to

> register with neighbouring GP practices

> to procure the existing patient list

> to place the list under temporary arrangements

>

>

> In this case, a review found that there were

> eleven alternate GP practices that were within 1.2

> miles of East Dulwich Medical Centre. All of

> these practices had capacity for additional

> patients and wished to accept Dr Sarma?s

> patients.

>

It's a shame the reps (Sharon Fernandez and another) from NHS England that informed the PPG and presented the letter were not briefed on any of this. They were asked several times why the practice couldn't continue under a different doctor - the answer was totally evaded and certainly not offered as is here.

[first mate]

This is most alarming.

Is there any way to challenge/override this decision, one which seems to have been decided by stealth on technicalities and small print? Can our local politicians help in anyway? Healthcare is just as important as education but there seems less political will and drive to secure local needs for the former.

[Penguin68]

It appears that Dr Sarma operated under a specific contract which allowed him (and required him) to appoint a partner to take over his practice if he chose to retire - which is, if I understand earlier posts, the method by which he himself took up this practice.

He appears not to have done this - and since GPs are private contractors into the NHS (they are not directly employed by the NHS) there is little the NHS could have done - they don't themselves 'own' the practice, nor do they have staff they could appoint into it if Dr Sarma did not chose to continue the practice via an 'inheriting' partner.

This is not like being a doctor employed by a hospital, where when one leaves, another can be appointed.

GPs have always been private individuals contracting with the service to provide health cover - either individually (i.e. Dr Sarma) or in partnerships.

The NHS has been told by the other private contractors in the area that they have capacity and desire to absorb Dr Sarma's list. What else could they (the NHS) have done?

[first mate]

P68,

Fair points. I just wonder how this works. Do processes automatically swing in once the contract is finished without any prior contact/communication between the relevant parties? Is it possible that Dr Sarma was simply not across the detail of the contract? It seems odd that if there are other GP's willing and able to continue running the practice that the contractual arrangement is immutable. I guess one would have to be convinced that Dr Sarma has stated something along the lines of 'I cannot be bothered/ I don't want anyone to take over'.

Still, I am no expert on contractual law so it may well be a set in stone affair where nothing can be done...shame though.