Harris Free School Primary on Hospital Site

[Otta]

bornagain Wrote:

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> If this school is to serve nunhead and it is going

> to be in east Dulwich it will create more traffic

> at start and end of school day. How can the

> children get to school without a car? Will it

> exclude nunhead children without access to a car?

> East Dulwich grove is being converted to 20 mph

> zone as we speak. We need less traffic not more.

Harris Crystal Palace is firmly in Penge. I don't think they really care about the name / area.

I know it's the weekend, but I wish one of the councillors would shed some light here, because this stinks.

[Fuschia]

A secondary building with 6 form would be 10000-12000 sq m I think

Plus outdoor space. These days parking is usually very limited

The building would be 2-3 stories

So I think a primary and a secondary and the health facilities probably could all be fitted in

[Renata Hamvas]

Hello everybody,

just to give some of the facts. The council (officers in conjunction with the cabinet member for children's services) produced a report on primary school place strategy and planning that was discussed at Cabinet in March 2013. Pupil planning is carried out taking into consideration many factors including for example numbers at nurseries, birth rates etc. These indicate that the number of children in the Dulwich area requiring reception places is peaking this year and then plateauing off for the next couple of years. It also shows that the Peckham and Nunhead area may still be having increased demand for primary places. These figures may, of course be wrong, eg if there are huge numbers of families with under 5s moving into the area, but if they are correct they imply there will be a slight excess of primary places in the Dulwich area by 2016. There is definitely a demand for the expansion of Ivydale as one of the areas where it is particularly difficult to secure a primary place is the Nunhead and East Dulwich to the South and East of Peckham Rye Park. The location of Harris Nunhead on the East Dulwich site would add extra places into the Dulwich area where the pupil planning suggests there will be sufficient places already! I don't believe there is much support for a second Harris Primary in the ED area and on this particular site (correct me if I'm wrong). This school would not be providing places in the Peckham and Nunhead area, where there is the prediction of some increase in demand(actually the North of the Borough is where most additional demand will be).

Over the last year there have been discussions between Councillors (including myself, the Cabinet member, then Dora Dixon-Fyle and the Leader, Peter John) and Officers over secondary provision. Similarly to primary provision, secondary provision within the Borough is also assessed. In 2009 there was a shortfall of primary places in the East Dulwich area. These children are currently in year 4 at primary and due to start secondary in 2016. In keeping with this and other factors, the pupil planning for secondary indicates there will be a shortfall of secondary places in the area for 2016, spreading northwards through the Borough by 2018. There has therefore been discussions and support for a new secondary for the East Dulwich area and the only suitable site is the Dulwich Hospital site. The plan is that this would open in 2016 to coincide with the increased demand. As everyone knows there has been huge support from local residents for a new secondary school to serve the East Dulwich area. Local Authorities can't open schools themselves under the current system; the route is via a free school.

To summarise, evidence shows there is a need for a Secondary rather than a primary school on the East Dulwich Hospital site and that is what the Council and over 600 local families want.

[Lou]

Thanks Renatta. That makes a lot of sense / is what most people believe. Hopefully this is a case of Gove getting it wrong. But given his letter, what are the next steps needed to make him aware it is secondary not primary that ED needs?

[mrs.lotte]

Completely agree with Renata's analysis and anticipate that she has been totally taken by surprise by Gove's letter. Can I ask what steps the LA are taking to clarify the position? If Gove's letter reflects the true position then we need a plan, however keen to know what the true state of affairs is first

[Fuschia]

Harris Tottenham and Harris Nunhead were both in wave 5

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/280934/Free_schools_wave_5_application_information.xlsx

And were both approved, see press release earlier this year https://www.gov.uk/government/news/successful-free-school-proposals-announced

Though Harris nunhead mutated slightly

'Harris Federation Free Schools

The successful academy chain Harris has had 2 London primary schools approved today. One 630-place school in will be located in Tottenham Hale and the other over 420-place school in Southwark. The schools will both have a literacy specialism. As part of the Harris network, they will benefit from sharing curriculum teaching and learning practices, pastoral practices and administrative services.'

I am not sure at what stage the consultation element takes place ... It does look as if the original names gathered for Harris ED have been used to support Harris Nunhead

[bornagain]

"I am not sure at what stage the consultation element takes place ... It does look as if the original names gathered for Harris ED have been used to support Harris Nunhead"

Yes, but ED is not Nunhead. How can yet another primary school in ED help the children of Nunhead? Just because there is some spare land a mile away is not the reason to find a site for a school. It's nowhere near where the demand is - unbelievable.

There will be more traffic, children will have a long journey to school in a car - the only outright winner is Harris.

James - what is your take on this? Are you as surprised and appalled as we all are?

[samstopit]

If you like the New Secondary School East Dulwich page on Facebook you will see the parents steering group has posted a letter that they have sent to Michael Gove.

You can also see it on twitter @NewSchDulwich

[Fuschia]

bornagain Wrote:

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> Yes, but ED is not Nunhead. How can yet another

> primary school in ED help the children of Nunhead?

> Just because there is some spare land a mile away

> is not the reason to find a site for a school.

> It's nowhere near where the demand is -

> unbelievable.

>

The thing about free schools is there an unseemly rush to set up as many as possible, it's not about filling a gap for places

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/09/half-of-new-primary-free-schools-fail-to-fill-places

[Monkey]

Yep setting them up fast and thick so they take over an area and can then become mediocre - which some of them already are.

[albert]

Harris has 6 schools in Southwark. 5 are outstanding. 1 is good. They provide a fantastic education to thousands of local children. Well done Lord Harris. Askes, I'm sure, are not beyond lobbying those that work in the department for education, but regardless of any of that I agree with the sentiment of Tessa Jowell's original letter to Michael Gove.

[James Barber]

Apologies but this will be a long post.

The Southwark Council forecast for primary school reception places is that the gap in the wider Dulwich area by 2016 (it has not peaked this year Renata) will be 215-235 places.

To solve this gap East Dulwich Lib Dem councillors found a site for the Judith Kerr school which is currently providing 50 reception places per year of which are by lottery so effectively 25 local places (and we need to campaign to ensure they get the whole site from the Dulwich Estate), Harris East Dulwich Primary school 60 receptions places per year. The council have expanded Langbourne and changed its name to make it more appealing - 30 reception places - but is undersubscribed with 30 current places. Belham opening in 2015 would relieve Goose Green of hopefully 30 reception places per year. That makes 170 places. So a second Harris primary school targeted to relieve the admissions black hole around the Harris East Dulwich Girls Academy has been approved bringing us to 230 places by 2016.

We contacted many different school providers none of whom were interested in setting up new local primary schools in East Dulwich. This was when I understood from talking with the then head of The Charter School having zero expansion plans for any new schools. Only the Harris Federation would consider this. The explained what they and the process would require and frankly they didn't expect us to succeed. But they delivered what they promised if we did.

When we were originally campaigning for the Harris East Dulwich Primary school to have a site we anticipated it being on the Dulwich Hopsital Site. Dealing with an intransigent NHS Property Agency brought me to the realisation that either they'd need a strong nudge to make it happen or the extended timelines they proposed would be needed. WE didn't have the time for all their games and the nudge I attempted was thwarted by NHS civil servants. NHS Property told me that my suggestion of joined up government was irrelevant and we'd find another site and schools places wasn't their problem practically or morally with what we then thought the only possible site.

So we support the Education Finance Agency and widened the search. Around Christmas we beaveared away with a lot of help from many different people and the former East Dulwich Police station was purchased for the Harris East Dulwich Primary school.

At no point has it been suggested that NHS property had moved their position.

After getting the free Harris ED free primary school agreed last year we turned to look at the secondary school place issue as we'd promised we would do. It became crystal clear of the need and we initiated campaign after doing a lot of leg work summer and autumn last year. In February I submitted a Right to Contect the hospital land as another attempt to kick sense into the government use via NHS Property of this land.

It appears NHS Property suddenly behind the scenes became helpful towards hosting the Harris Nunhead primary free school. I suspect this is an attempt to thwart a secondary school on the hospital site as it would reduce the potential sale receipts for NHS Property.

But we have two other sites better placed to house a Harris Nunhead free primary school:

1. 520 Lordship Lane (former Harvester pub) but the Education Finance Agency still feel bruised from their last dealing with the freeholder the Dulwich Estate who only sold a postage stamp for the Judith Kerr school to be housed. The Dulwich Estate charitable aim is to raise cash for private schools even if it means crucifying a new state school

2. Harris East Dulwich Girls School. No land costs. Lots of existing facilitates that could be shared. Complicated timings with the Harris East Dulwich free primary school being temporarily housed their from this Septembers for a year.

So I welcome the New East Dulwich Secondary School Steering Group letter to Michael Gove. I have asked the council leader Peter John to make it clear to the Educational Finance Agency and Harris Federation that in planning terms the two others sites Ive mentioned would be acceptable.

It would be a shame and painful to have to withdraw East Dulwich Lib Dem support from the second local Harris free primary school and seek its supporters to do the same. We need this school in the area but close to where the gaps are. BUT for East Dulwich residents a secondary school is needed even more. Hopefully we won't reach this point.

Which is why in the end it may be that both schools could be housed on the hospital site however daft putting the Harris Nunhead free primary schools there might be.

[buggie]

Of the potential sites mentioned, only the Harris Girls school site would be of any benefit/easy to access for Nunhead (and being familiar with the location of the school, am bit confused where a primary would fit on there), the old Harvester site would be even more difficult than the hospital to reach via public transport (unless there'll also be liason with TfL to improve transport links).

I understand how there are restrictions given the urban area, but this does illustrate the statistic banded about in the press that the majority of free schools are opening in areas that don't need them (regarding Harris Nunhead, not the Harris ED).

I notice that you didn't mention the expansion of Ivydale which would be of greater use to Nunhead and add more primary places locally from 2016 (or is it still smarting that that won't be a Harris too?!).

[DenmotherSmith]

The councils report on school places states "the distribution of places indicates pressure in the north of the borough. Conversely there are sufficient to excess places in the south with the addition of a 2FE Harris primary free school in Nunhead recently approved by the Department for Education to open in September 2015."

So the proposed primary school isn't even needed in Nunhead, let alone on the hospital site. Could the Harris federation be trying to scupper a future secondary school on the hospital site as they stand to lose out on pupils to their single sex secondaries nearby. Harris may have the ear of Gove and his department and can no doubt see a threat that could leave their schools heavily undersubscribed.

[LondonMix]

James this really appalling. Given how closely you've worked with Harris the fact that they did this without you or any other councillors being aware is quite disturbing.

While a new primary in Numhead might be needed, locating in that part of East Dulwich is nonsensical. Furthermore, given the site is needed more acutely for secondary provision, that must play its part.

Given the behaviour to date, I believe a formal petition is required and getting the ball rolling on those parents who signed up for a Nunhead primary formally withdrawing support if the school is situated on the hospital site should be started.

Also why on earth would the NHS prefer a primary school to a secondary school? Are dimply saying Harris has outbid an existing offer on the table?

If there is no place near Nunhead for the Harris school to be located surely expanding existing schools is the only realistic option.

[intexasatthe moment]

It does seem that more primary school places are needed to meet demand in the Nunhead area and that putting a primary school on the hospital site won't meet this need .But,as others have said, from James's post on page 1 of the new secondary school for ED thread http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1229772 this has been the plan all along .

"The Dulwich Hospital site is the only Dulwich land with sufficient space for a secondary school. A secondary school would still leave plenty of space for the proposed primary school and proposed medical facilities. "

So it seems there is sufficient space but that the problem ( for the provision of the secondary school ) is financial ?

"I suspect this is an attempt to thwart a secondary school on the hospital site as it would reduce the potential sale receipts for NHS Property. " - could James or some other knowledgeable person explain this sentence a bit more ?

[James Barber]

Hi LondonMix,

When I first heard this I immediately called Harris mgmt. They hadn't at that time been told by the Educational Finance Agency that they'd decided to placed them at the Hospital Site.

In fact I'd nagged only a week early about the two sites I think feasible and they agreed they needed to lobby the Education Finance Agency (who are responsible for finding sites) for them again.

I think Harris have been placed in this situation and would prefer a more logical site.

Hi buggie,

520 Lordship Lane would be my choice as a clear primary school admissions black hole there.

Hi DenmotherSmith,

The reports shows gap of 215-235 places in the wider Dulwich area. We have not yet closed that gap.

[intexasatthe moment]

As buggie has already queried ,where on the East Dulwich Harris Girls site would the primary school go ? Is there space at the rear of the site where a swimming pool used to be ?

[Otta]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Hi buggie,

> 520 Lordship Lane would be my choice as a clear

> primary school admissions black hole there.

Undoubtedly a black hole, but not one that's going to help anyone in Nunhead.

[Fuschia]

DenmotherSmith Wrote:

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> The councils report on school places states "the

> distribution of places indicates pressure in the

> north of the borough. Conversely there are

> sufficient to excess places in the south with the

> addition of a 2FE Harris primary free school in

> Nunhead recently approved by the Department for

> Education to open in September 2015."

> So the proposed primary school isn't even needed

> in Nunhead, let alone on the hospital site. Could

> the Harris federation be trying to scupper a

> future secondary school on the hospital site as

> they stand to lose out on pupils to their single

> sex secondaries nearby. Harris may have the ear of

> Gove and his department and can no doubt see a

> threat that could leave their schools heavily

> undersubscribed.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

The free school agenda is mooted as being about parent power, but in reality it's increasingly about large chains expanding their portfolios. With all existing ED primaries good or better there would be no access point for Harris into the primary sector but this is the way in - potentially destabilising existing schools.

And the cost of all this. Existing schools are increasingly squeezed financially - building free schools 'just for the sake of it' is a colossal waste.

Someone needs to FOI to see what consultation took place over this Harris Nunhead. My reading of the Harris site (where they have sneaked it in) is that it was done off the back of Harris ED. That can't be right.

[newguy42]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Hi buggie,

> 520 Lordship Lane would be my choice as a clear

> primary school admissions black hole there.

Definitely a black hole (we live in it, very close to the old Harvester site) but agree with Otta - this school is NOT going to help Nunhead. Also strongly feel consultation is needed with the local community wherever this school is placed before yet another Harris primary is inflicted on the area. A lot of people have very strong feelings about Harris and their dominance of the local education options and yet they keep being allowed and, it seems, positively encouraged to open new schools.

[albert]

That's probably because Harris are very good at opening new schools. Most are outstanding and they achieve excellent results. Their value added scores are amazing. Poor Harris.

[LondonMix]

Fuschia-- Harris have already got a new primary opening in East Dulwich on the police site so I think they already have a leg in without pushing for the hospital site. That is part of what makes this entire thing so illogical. We already have and ED Harris Primary opening up soon.

Intex, you are right, I forgot there was supposed to be room for both a primary school and a secondary school on the hospital site. However, now that Harris have secured the police site, is that really the best use of the hospital land now?

James understanding why you think the NHS are behind this and what the financial benefit is for the NHS having Harris take a portion of the site would be helpful.

More importantly, it seems really unfair to nunhead parents that their support for a new primary would be located in ED. Given Harris already have control of the ED Girls site, if that trully is feasible why do they need to consult with anyone over using the site for the Nunhead primary they have been asked to create.

[intexasatthe moment]

" now that Harris have secured the police site, is that really the best use of the hospital land now? " No ,not at all .

Might there possibly be some sort of domino knock on effect - places freed up at Goose Green ,places freed up at Heber ,places freed up at Goodrich - which might mean Nunhead families able to get places at Goodrich ????

Just brainstorming here - clearly what's needed is more provision in Nunhead . Poor Nunhead families indeed .

[nxjen]

Gove did not confirm in his letter to Tessa that Harris Nunhead was going ahead on the hospital site, he wrote "My department is working with officials in the Department of Health to acquire part of the Dulwich Community Hospital site for the Harris Nunhead primary school ..." Without further clarification about how far negotiations have got, this statement really doesn't say much, it could mean they're about to sign the contract, it could mean there's been a phone call or two. James says in an earlier post that Harris management was not aware the EFA had acquired part of the hospital site on their behalf and on the other thread that "The EFA intend for Harris to establish the Harris Nunhead fre priamry school on this site" But nevertheless the land is owned by the Department of Health regardless of how Gove's department thinks it should be used (though, once the health facility has been allowed for, I support its use for education.)

It is also not clear whether it is the primary or the secondary school to which Tessa is referring when she writes to Gove: "There is some confusion however, as political claims have been made that the site will be used for one 'preferred' candidate bid which is being promoted." This could well refer to the LibDem initiative for a new secondary school, largely supported by parents, which favours Haberdashers as the preferred supplier.

I suspect this is a case of MP and minister communicating at cross purposes, creating confusion in their wake.