ED Deli closing

[the-e-dealer]

by the way the expression is "Off the beaten track"

you've revised from no-one to not many- how many do you define as many?

and how far away do you define someone as 'not local' ? Forest Hill, Sydenham? I met a couple at The Curry Cabin who regularly go there from Clapham. I'm not saying that my meeting 2 people mean there's shed-loads of visitors! (a shedload based on the average 6x4 shed = 6 people)

[James]

Um, I think Draft House and Adventure Bar closed because the former was a located in a dingy, narrow space on two levels with the atmosphere of a walk-in clinic and the latter was, as someone once suggested on here, the sort of bar you'd expect to see on Hollyoaks.

[Louisa]

By not many, I am comparing with areas which this one claims to be on a par with for nights out, the Clapham and Brixton equivalents. More to do, better connected, go to destinations. One couple in the curry cabin may come from Clapham, but if you take out the unique one off restaurants there is no need for people to go out of their way and be inconvenienced by coming here to see places they already have and more on their doorsteps. By not local again I compare to areas this one likes to see itself as similar to. People go to Shoreditch from far and wide, people visit clapham from far and wide. The farthest someone comes to get here is probably Peckham maybe Forest Hill. Once the picturehouse opens and M&S this will probably change. But at present, it's far from go to.

Louisa.

[Louisa]

James, not true. Adventure bar is a small chain, all the others have survived and they have identical atmospheres wherever they are. The same is true of draft house, all surviving to date apart from the ED one. The area does not have a large enough night life culture to support multiple bars at present. Sad but true fact.

Louisa.

[New Girl]

I genuinely don't think people come from far for a night out. The taxis may be taking them onto other venues in different locations. Thought of that? I believe locals and people from surrounding areas come here. Two separate groups of friends visited last week under duress and they all live in Clapham and go out in Clapham or town. They've never been to Dulwich and wouldn't if it wasn't because I was here and made them. And it's not like the 37 takes long! The overground from Peckham to Clapham High Street isn't difficult. And yet they wouldn't come back for a night out as there is a greater variety of bars and venues in Clapham. We have pubs. A lot of pubs. My northern home village has 5 pubs. With a population 5,000 it caters for a few drinks for the locals but not a night out location. Don't get me wrong, I'd take a pub with a fire over a bar, every time! But my point is that East Dulwich is fantastic for a night with friends and food and be home by midnight. But it is not the destination for party goers or bar trawlers. During the day time it is no different, as we have nothing special here that would draw people to travel far for it.

[Jeremy]

I'm sure other branches of Adventue Bar are doing well, but the formula of gaudy cocktails, bottled lager and blaring chart music was all wrong for the type of people who seem to be settling in ED these days (reasonably affluent thirty-somethings, young families, etc).

[jimbo1964]

Thank god for that. Clapham in the evening is horrible. It's only the Old Town that's worth visiting.. but I wouldn't make an effort to go there from ED. The cinema will pull in people from a slightly wider catchment area. The good places in ED will do ok and the crap ones (Aventure Bar etc) won't. I think the new places that are due to open all sound rather exciting.

[Louisa]

The affluent 30 something's with young families the area has become famous for still doesn't appear to be encouraging the big name businesses you'd associate with that group. Sure we have White Stuff and Oliver Bonas, but where is Jack Wills? Space NK? Waitrose? Still absent after almost 20 years of continuing gentrification. The footfall is just not there, it's simple.

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

It's not Upper Street... or even Northcote Rd. There's a limit to how much shite stuff/jack wills type nonsense the area can support.

[jimbo1964]

Well that's something to celebrate. None of those places enrich an area.

[New Girl]

With you there.

[david_carnell]

clockworkorange Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wow. Over a coffee shop.

>

> Can I just ask, at the risk of adding more froth

> to this hot coffee school yard scuffle, how do

> local shops, by contrast to the nasty multiples,

> pump their profits back to the local community?

> Never heard such toss in my life.

>

> Please enlighten me as to how local shops for

> local people are so charitable? Surely they're

> businesses there to make profit, just like the

> neros of this world? I've not met a successful

> retailer that runs their business for the good of

> the community although I have worked with big

> nationals, including supermarkets, that take

> social responsibility very seriously and pump

> millions of pounds into charitable causes.

>

> As an aside, Nero employs more people in east d

> than say the chandelier. That's more "locals" with

> money to spend "locally".

>

Chain stores, whether they are supermarkets or coffee shops or places selling topedo-shaped sandwiches are a way of doing business that has a particular model for the society and local economy that grows up around them. Because of the way they are linked in to remote supply structures and with remote investors they have little to no knowledge of that local economy. All the demands and the pattern of business focused on those sorts of franchise models are fundamentally uninterested in the overall health and wellbeing and vibrancy of the local economy.

They are interested in one thing only. Sucking in consumer spending to then be extracted from the local economy, sent off to a head office to pay for centralised logisitcs and the expectations of shareholders and investors. They are extractive industries.

So the difference between, say a Cafe Nero and a locally-owned and run coffee shop, is that whether it is to do with who does their accounts each year or who cleans their windows every week, local businesses are much more likely to recirculate the spending that goes into their business back into the local economy which then brings otehr social and economic benefits.

Local businesses whose, for want of a better phrase, DNA is intertwined with the local community bring more benefits. Not just whatever it is they are selling but a social glue. They provide financial resources from which more vibrant and more diverse and thus more resilient communities can grow.

Lastly, and for me most importantly, they give a sense of place. A feeling of distinctiveness and uniqueness. They aren't clone towns. I recently had to go to Northwich in Cheshire. Walking along the High Street there was not a single indicator of where I was. It was the same as a hundred other high streets in Britain and incredibly depressing.

We are really lucky in East Dulwich and Peckham and Nunhead to have those distinct shops (butchers, bakers, whatever) that bring an identity to the area. Chain stores destroy that identity.

[Seabag]

Take a look at Portabello Road, it's slowly slipped into the 'chain' model

As has Northcote Road in Battersea, but less so. However, once it starts, it's hard to resist for landlords

Something does get lost, the atmosphere changes too

[LondonMix]

I agree that ED does not have the footfall for a shop like Cath Kidstone.

I disagree that the likes of Waitrose are not interested as we have had confirmation that they are.

The size of the units is the main issue that a lot of chain retailers have with the area. Every unit large enough for a chain has been taken by a chain and every small unit that has been vacated has been leased very quickly but interesting indies.

[jimbo1964]

Which is pretty much the perfect mix in my book.

[Louisa]

Rivington. It's going to be a Rivington. Annasfield I'm right aren't I?

Louisa.

[Otta]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I disagree that the likes of Waitrose are not

> interested as we have had confirmation that they are.

Really? When? (serious question as haven't heard that or have and forgot)

[Jeremy]

Someone once posted and said they work for Waitrose, and they're up for it if/when a premises turns up. James Barber also said that Waitrose were interested in the Iceland site if the whole planning for the M&S store didn't go through.

[New Girl]

I missed that. What's happening with the Crown House near the leisure centre? (Missed that also)

[Louisa]

James Barber suggested previously Waitrose had been interested, but to me it's all pie in the sky. If they truly were interested in an area, they would acquire an existing business or buy up one of the many empty larger units such as the vacant unit on East Dulwich Road next to Dulwich Leisure Centre, or where the garden centre on grove vale was - new morrisons local site? They clearly aren't massively interested in the area as so many suggest, or else they would be here by now. It really is that clear cut.

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

I tend to agree, it's basically just gossip - I wouldn't hold my breath. Can't say it bothers me all that much either way.

[Louisa]

Me neither. An Aldi on the other hand..

Louisa.

[jimbo1964]

I expect Waitrose/Ocado do well enough from home deliveries.

[first mate]

I sometimes wonder if the Waitrose suggestion was put out there as a kind of urban myth, simply to garner support for the developer's submission (lots of housing in a tiny space). I guess councillors that sit on planning committees know all the little tricks of the planning game.

[Otta]

There were minutes of a council meeting a coupmer of years back saying Waitrose were after the Greyhound site in sydenhamw.

That was also a load of bollocks.