how to keep 4 year old in bed at bedtime?!

[bonacara]

There used to be a time when i just kissed him goodnight and walked out the room and he would go to sleep, no problems, then slowly bedtimes became a nightmare, nowadays I spend my evenings curled up next to him, waiting 1-1.5 hours for him to settle down and fall asleep. I had enough! How do I leave the room and make him stay in there? I tried the super nanny technique of just walking /taking him back in , no eye contact, no talking... we did this for hours on end, with screaming , shouting and crying for 6 months. It did not work. I am at a complete loss. I want my evenings back, please help.

[kittysailing]

Have you tried sticker chart ? we did a week of not shouting out once he'd gone to bed and he got a sticker each morning. They were traded in for a trip to toys r us. Broke the habit and did the trick.

[Saffron]

What time are you initially putting him to bed? Have you tried moving the bedtime a bit later?

The nanny-style behavioural modifications rely heavily on the child actually being sleepy enough for bed, and not having any other issues e.g. nighttime separation anxiety. Children can develop nighttime sep anx at any point, so maybe worth considering if that's a factor?

[oimissus]

at a guess he's going to bed too early if it's taking that long. At 4 and a half lights out for Miss Oi are between 8 and 8.30, depending on when she woke up and what kind of day we've had.

We do bath, milk, teeth, 2/3 stories, lights out, sit and chat about her day then we lie on the sofa in her room for a wee bit, then out.

One thing that we changed recently when she was fussing a lot at bedtime is make her room lighter - before we had the downstairs hall light on and her door ajar; when we changed it to the landing light outside her room on and the door wide open it made a massive difference, she had clearly (in hindsight!) become a bit scared of the dark!

[jennyh]

My daughter is only 3 but we've periodically had this sort of resistance. Recently what seems to have made a difference is assessing the day at bedtime and working out whether she needs a bit of extra attention to unwind. We have a new baby and she also goes to nursery so quite often it gets to bedtime and she's not had time one on one to have a chat and clear her mind. After nursery she really needs to brain dump her thoughts and usually the end of the day is a bit rushed which results in a big meltdown. So as much as it bothers me spending an hour with her after the hour getting the baby into bed, it is better than the hours of screaming and fighting. I tend to do her stories and then she lies ok bed and we just chat about the day and about what we are going to do the next day and I try to make lots of positive comments to try and get a happy mood in her. We also talk about what things she didn't play with that she would like to tomorrow etc so that urge to play is addressed. when lights go off she has an audio CD to listen to which helps her to focus her mind rather than being frustrated she can't go to sleep. She tells me she doesn't like closing her eyes so I just say she should listen to the story and look at the glow in the dark stars in her room.

We sometimes also bribe with chocolate raisins the next day. And failing that give her a lecture about how it's ok to cry sometimes but not when she's being naughty at bedtime...and hold the door shut when she is escaping every 5 mins!

You have my sympathies. Our evenings are taken up with bedtime stuff from 6-8/9 so I know how you feel! Ending the day with a screaming session is also really depressing and draining.

[bonacara]

Thanks ladies for all your thoughts and advice. I will try the sticker chart idea, we did sth similar a while ago, the sleep fairy would bring him a sticker if he fell asleep with no drama. I forgot about that, thanks for reminding me. Our evening routine has been the same for years. Dinner at 6. Big warm bath at 7. Bedtime at 8. Read 2 books, brush teeth, another book, lights out by 8.30 latest. I thought it might be a bit late? He always wants to tell me all about everything after lights out- who he played with, what they played, asking endless questions about how is cheese made and where do feathers come from, etc I think I may also get a cd player and put stories on or music to listen to, fall asleep to.another good idea, thanks. I am determined to win these battles! Will update on developments.

[jennyh]

Yes mine is the same at constant chattering, like a final attempt to keep you there. As soon as I gave in and allowed her a few mins of it then it eased the tension somewhat! Good luck!

[SBot]

We has this issue a while go. We don't insist she go to sleep, happy for her to play in her room. She does so and then within half an hour she takes herself into bed. She'll usually just sit in bed looking through her books. I really don't mind it's that or hours or shrieking at each other!

[GinaG3]

My daughter is 5 and has always been difficult with getting to sleep. She HAD to be breastfed to sleep until 2 and didn't know how to get to sleep by herself. After that for a year she had to have comfort by rubbing a mole on my chest to get to sleep. From 4 I've had to be in her bed with her every night so she feels 'safe', I spend around an hour in there every night but I'd rather that than her feel worried and anxious about sleeping. I'll admit I've never actually tried leaving her to sleep by herself, if I say I'm going to the toilet or to get a drink she will follow me or sit waiting for me to come back.

Our routine is consistent on week nights and consistent with a different routine on weekends where she is less worn out. Weeknights its dinner at 6, bath every other day at 6.30 and then do what she likes until 8. At 8 we go and get in bed, read a story together, then she tells me anything that she wants to talk about for 5 minutes, after this point we put on her audio playlist on her iPad (out of sight) and I tell her there is no more time for talking and I will talk on the walk to school in the morning. We then tell each other to relax (never sleep) and she drifts off with cuddles after around 20-30 minutes. Sometimes she tries to talk and carry on with needless questions but I always tell her I want to listen to the story as its my favourite and she can ask me all the questions in the world in the morning.

She sleeps in her own bed until about 2-4am before coming to get in our bed. I just figure she will grow out of it or feel more secure when there is a sibling that shares her bedroom so she knows she has someone. Its hard but it doesn't last forever. I was exactly the same as a child and remember feeling so horrible without any one there.

[canela]

I got round this by letting my son fall asleep with me in the big bed whilst i watched what i wanted to do on TV or did some work on the computer. that way you are still with them but you can do things for you instead of just waiting. now he's older he goes to sleep perfectly well in his own bed so don't think it had a lasting effect...

[CarterC]

I feel your pain, bedtime disasters are awful, I love my kids but I need a bit of time at the end of the day to myself! I had this issue with my 5 year old as well as dreadful sleeping issues with my baby so was a mess. I used a sleep consultant who said to be firm and advised I use the super nanny technique but just like you describe it led to an even worse bedtime with hysterical screaming and then night waking from him as well as the baby! After seeing the glowing reports about Nicola Watson from Child Sleep Solutions on here we gave it another go with her and her much gentler approach worked amazingly!! The key to resolving both of their issues was in the detail I think and getting everything perfect so that sleep came easier. If you can stretch to it I really recommend you give her a call and get your evenings back, it is so worth it!

[iclaudia]

It might be that that's a bit late - my twin girls (4 1/4) go to bed at 7-7.30 and they are shattered by that time most usually. What actually happens when you leave the room? Does he get out of bed continuously? I am so with you on needing your evenings to yourself, you must be shattered. I tend to wait next door in my room until I know that they have gone to sleep - the constant up/down the stairs drove me mad. I am also very firm with them. I had a period a few months ago where they just would NOT stay in bed. I invented a toy fairy (courtesy of the pound shop) who would come and leave them a surprise under their pillow in the morning if they were good and didn't get out of bed. Not necessarily the best tactics but it worked - to start with I worried I'd have to do it every day for years :D but after about a week they just forgot about it and had got into a new habit of staying put. Now I put them to bed, put bedtime music on, and sometimes let them read or play with a torch/toy whilst the music is playing. I tell them in advance that when the music stops they have to go to sleep and stop playing - if they don't and won't settle or stay in bed, I get strict and threaten no treats the following day!

[bonacara]

Thanks fo all the advice again. Iclaudia, he just comes out, and clings on and does not leg go. He wants me to be there with him. No matter what I do, threaten, shout, beg, ask, bribe... he does not want to be by himself in the room. It may be my fault, he is a real mommy's boy, and cannot get enough of my cuddles and kisses.

I did get a sticker chart printed and started with the sleep fairy again. It helps a bit.he took half an hour tonight to fall asleep. ( with me next to him) its an improvement already compared to his usual 1.5 hours. We will get there....

[jesska]

I second a lot of the good advice on here, but would add that it might help to just be going in one direction (into bed!) after bath time. So bath, teeth, then stories and chats in his bed. If bath is at 7 then aim to be in bed with him reading stories by 730 and then have chat time but set the timer on your phone or have another way of marking the end of chat time. Talking and digesting the day together is great time spent for lots of reasons, and I find that if I give mine time to do that (within reason) they settle better.

But I feel for you: I had a similar problem when my youngest was 2 and in a big bed. We also resorted to a "grab bag" of small toys he would be able to reach into in the morning after a good bedtime (whilst being very specific about what that was - reiterate that bedtime means going to bed, closing your eyes and going to sleep). The grab bag was necessary with his older brother too, who would go to bed nicely but then migrate to our (small) bed at around 3am to squirm and mangle us!

It won't happen overnight, but, as iclaudia says, the bribery won't have to last forever. I won't lie though - I had a lock on the younger one's door for particularly bad nights where he wouldn't settle down, and the threat of him being shut in was a good motivator also. You have to protect your sanity, especially if there are other children who might get the same idea. Mine are now 5 and 7 and bedtimes are fine. Just remember that routine is your friend and an intensive but brief campaign of bribery can help you reset the routine to something that works for you. Good luck!

[Saffron]

Locking (or threatening to lock) a child's door to enforce 'settling' at bedtime is not good psychological practice for developing healthy sleep habits. It can worsen nighttime anxiety and fear, and it does not proactively teach children how to settle themselves. xx

[iclaudia]

The only other thing I can think of then Jesska is to try telling him you will come back in 5 minutes to check on him, can he just lie there for 5 minutes and that you will be back. Obviously you do need to go back if you say that, but at least it turns it into a bit of a 'competition' and all he has to do is make it through those 5 minutes. Poor little sausage. We have this baby monitor that I still put the music on for bedtime and the music lasts 15 minutes - I often say to them if we're having a bad bedtime that they can play for the duration of that music, or if they say they can't sleep I say I'll come back and check on them when the music has finished. Sometimes it takes two plays of the music but it's giving them timeframes in chunks that seem manageable. Best of luck.

[minder]

Hi bonacara, maybe as iclaudia has said, 8.30 could be quite late for bedtime and then your son is over-tired and can't settle? Maybe bring dinner time forward by half an hour to see if it helps.

Also, you are tired too at that time of night and it's easy to resort to shouting, asking, bribing and begging but he will just tune in to this as you are his main person and try to get more attention and also giving him too many choices. If your 4 year old isn't getting enough sleep it will just become a vicious circle.

Being firm and re-assuring him and also telling him what you're going to do in the morning might help.

[canela]

I find once you start getting into asking someone to go to sleep more than 3 times it just doesn't work as they will draw it out...

does he have a small lamp in his room? can't you just tell him mummy will stay in the room for a little while but he has to go to sleep - and you bring a book or magazine. I did this with mine - I found that it helped for them to know my focus was not on them. If he knows you are just thinking about him going to sleep or not, that draws out your attention on him and he keeps it going. If you stay in the room reading he is secure, but you are not engaging with him.

[esme]

I'd say try earlier routine or bit later - one should hopefully work... I think they all go through phases, particularly where they are more alert and questionning (not a bad thing tho poor you I know what having no eve is like!!).

I tried sticker charts to improve behaviour but found he just expected stickers for pretty much everything after a while, so stopped that.

My 4 yr old sometimes plays up at bedtime ("I'm hungry, I'm not tired, can I play for a little while?") but if you're firm and keep to your routine your son will learn he has to go to bed and sleep, otherwise he will be mega tired each morning...

Excellent book which will make you smile if nothing else is 'Nighty Night' by Colin McNaughton

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Nighty_Night.html?id=W0n1AAAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

Good luck!