Advice on bottle feeding needed please

[etta166]

Before you fret too much about sterilising and all that, bear in mind that a number of other countries don't recommend sterilising for full term, healthy babies (Germany springs to mind) and most places still suggest making a batch of formula for the day in advance, inc USA. All the places I've traveled with my babies, I've never encountered the same strict attitude to sterilising as in the UK. The pragmatist in me says just dishwasher the bottles, measure out the boiled water into each bottle all in one go and add powder as needed. Also, most babies are happy with room temperature milk so there's really no need to heat it up unless you want to.

[Convex]

I've always used hot water as powder us not sterile.

I use about 30ml freshly boiled. Stir to dissolve, then top up with room temp cool boiled water

Edited to add I have also made up in advance or used a thermos for hot water... Otherwise you'd be tied to the house!

It's a shame there isn't official nhs advice on formula.

[Knomester]

Bubster I'm so sorry to here you've been having similar problems to me. The pain is dreadful, but it will get better and you will heal in time. Keep that in mind as you go through this process.

I was completely baffled by bottles and formula too but have now got my head around it (although I must admit to predominantly using ready made formula). I have the MAM anti colic bottles which can be sterilise in the microwave individually. I also have a MAM microwave steriliser which fits around 4 or 5 bottles at a time and keeps them sterilised for 24 hours.

It is easier than I first thought and there's lots of good advice on here, but you're right that there isn't great independent advice available. There is some info on the NHS website but it's the practical information I struggled to find (other than on formula websites).

Good luck. You're doing an amazing job.

[espelli]

There is some NHS advice as I was given a booklet when I left hospital as I mix fed my son pretty much from the off due to a number of issues. It might be worth asking your Health Visitor for a copy? I found this on the NHS site though which might help in the meantime http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/making-up-infant-formula.aspx#close

It took a while for me to trust that I was making up the formula properly and I did use pre made formula too. I used cold water sterilising in milton because that was what I had started with in hospital but beware that if you leave the bottles in the solution until you need them it strips the measures off the side which adds a whole new layer of complication to the process!

[Bubster]

Thanks, everyone, for continuing to share your stories and experiences. Reassuring, but also alarming in a way, to hear from so many people who have also had really tough times with breastfeeding. Makes me feel much less lonely.

Anyway, the next step in our 'journey' seems to be a visit to a cranial osteopath, as recommended by Katie Fisher. Any thoughts or comments on this? For those who took their baby for treatment, would you say it made a noticeable difference to breastfeeding?

[tarafitness]

Hi Bubster, I didn't end up taking my son to a cranial osteopath in the end - but had considered it, I've heard good things about them.

I just wanted to add to this thread that for anyone whose baby is undergoing (or who has recently undergone) a tongue tie release, it took *weeks* and not days (as my GP advised) to see a marked difference in feeding.

I'd say that milk transfer improved reasonably quickly, and seeing Nicky (who runs the breastfeeding Caf? on Albrighton Rd) really helped my son to get the best and deepest possible latch (after my plea for help to our group's NCT breastfeeding 'advisor' was completely ignored). She also helped me to stop using nipple shields, which enabled my nipples to heal completely. However, I think that because my son had had his tongue basically glued to the floor of his mouth for six weeks, he was used to not using it to feed, so had to learn how to use it from scratch. This took at least 2 weeks.

My son also has upper lip tie, so I found that using the 'flipple'/'exaggerated latch' technique helped too.

Another thing that helped breastfeeding was simply his getting bigger and therefore his jaw increasing in size! I suspect he might still be a little tongue tied as he finds it hard to remove food from the roof of his mouth, but our daytime feeds last about 4/5 minutes each side... as opposed to 90 minutes for both as had previously!

Tara x

[Bubster]

Hi Tara,

I've been meaning to go to the albrighton cafe as I've heard good things about it. Interesting too to hear about your getting help to lose the nipple shields. I've often been afraid to try feeding without because they seem to protect the nipples from further damage (and I hope from another bout of mastitis) but yeah, then what about milk transfer?!

Anyway, it's off to the cranial osteopath Monday so wish me luck!

[Knomester]

We couldn't use nipple shields because strangely they made my wounds worse (same for expressing with a pump, had to do it by hand).

I completely agree with what Tara says about the time needed, perhaps just by some babies. With my fidget baby it took a couple of weeks to notice much difference (I'd expected an instant change) and then a further 5 weeks (ie 7 in total) until I was feeding relatively pain free. This time round it took much longer - I'm feeding from one side only (plus formula) after 15 weeks and it's only been in the past week that I've been able to stop the painkillers and stop using the novogel pads.

Are you using novogel pads? If you've seen Katie Fisher I'm sure you are. They were my life savers!

Good luck with the cranial osteopath - it was really helpful for us first time round.

[Bubster]

Hi Knomester and Tara,

Thanks for your stories about how long you both persevered with (trying to) breastfeed despite all the problems. They've helped reassure me that I'm not crazy for persevering myself -- although surely I'm a masochist. I'll try to be realistic about what difference the cranial osteopath session might make. Would either of you say you are now breastfeeding relatively successfully/happily?

Anyway, yes, Knomester, Katie put us on to the Novogel pads, which seem to help a bit, or at least prevent nipples from getting worse.

Seems the subject of this thread needs to be updated to reflect the fact that we've spent the last few days talking about how to continue with breastfeeding, rather than bottle feeding practicalities!

[Knomester]

Bubster I wouldn't say I'm feeding pain free, but It's worlds apart from the the days of the screaming through feeds! I have almost healed but it took giving up completely on the right for that to start healing and even then it has taken a few weeks to heal. I jus do 3 feeds a day on the left and I'm really happy that I managed to persevere with that. I fed my first son exclusively to 18 months so it is different this time around, but we're all happier now there is no longer the same stress and pain associated with breastfeeding.

[tarafitness]

Knomester, I'm so impressed by your perseverance, it sounds like you've had an horrendous time, it's awesome that you're still going :-)

Bubster, feeding is completely pain free, and - when he's not being a fusspot - an absolute joy. However, it took about 5 months to get that way.

I can identify with your 'masochist' comment, as at times it just felt like I was punishing myself by continuing to breastfeed and not just move onto formula. However, I didn't get past a few days breastfeeding my older (now adult) son, and it's something that has played on my mind for a few years now, so I was determined to give it my best shot with this baby. Plus, I'm really, really stubborn.

With my eldest I also had serious nipple trauma, but he wasn't tongue tied (that I know of), so I think it was down to a poor latch... which I also think might be true to a certain degree with DS2, as once I had help with it (from Nicky at the Albrighton Rd breastfeeding caf?) - and stopped using the nipple shields - it cleared up entirely. He didn't start gaining weight until the frenulotomy though.

My breastfeeding issues read like an AtoZ of ailments, I think I had most things - painful cracked and bleeding nipples, thrush (both of us), vasospasm (still have, but not painful any more, and I think it's more to do with his clamping down when he feeds, thus reducing blood flow), blebs (nipple blisters that needed opening up with a needle after each feed), mastitis twice - the first resulted in 3 lumps which I stupidly left and ended up with one turning into a full blown abscess that took 5 weeks of antibiotics and 4 separate needle aspirations at the Breast Clinic at King's to clear. DS2 was also gaining weight too slowly, and dropped from the 50th percentile to the 9th, and was looking visibly gaunt. Added to that were the marathon feeding sessions - an hour to an hour and a half in total - so by the time he'd finished feeding, it was often time to begin again! Dinner times weren't fun, but I did get rather adept at one-handed eating, whilst the other arm supported my feeding baby!

As previously mentioned, I didn't didn't heal properly until I stopped using the shields, but without them I'd have given up breastfeeding within a few days as I was feeling completely traumatised by the pain I was experiencing (I basically had to fix my gaze on my baby when feeding as, if I looked away, it would hurt even more... it felt like someone was using a cheese grater on my nipples, or rubbing them with cut glass!), and also by the amount of blood my son was vomiting back up (I didn't allow visitors for a while as I hated the thought of him spewing blood on his grandmother!). I can't use the normal medium sized ones though as they were too big and rubbed on the area, and if it wasn't for my OH's heroic dash to Mothercare Lewisham at quarter to 5 on New Year's Eve, I don't know what I'd have done!

DS2 slept most of his first night in his crib (actually, that was the only night he slept in his crib as he refused to after that!) and didn't feed at all really. On the second night he fed *all* night, which I think is when the majority of the damage took place (although I also think my milk coming in played a part, as it's hard to get a decent latch when you're dealing with something so engorged). My milk came in that next morning, so he was obviously doing the right thing, I was just completely unprepared for it (our nct breastfeeding class didn't cover things like cluster feeds, so I didn't realise what he was doing was completely normal). The shields were an absolute necessity, they just unfortunately stopped my nipples healing fully and also prevented adequate milk transfer because my son was tongue tied and would latch on - but then slip down the teat - so that he was sucking it like a straw and not getting much out.

After the tongue tie release, my son's latch improved dramatically. He stopped making clicking noises, and I didn't hear the sound of air rushing in (like if you're drinking from a sports bottle and you release the nozzle). It took a while for him to be able to maintain his latch though as he he'd spent the first six weeks of his life with his tongue firmly rooted to the base of his mouth, and had to learn how to use it to feed.

Although I feel like I've been a bit unlucky in the troubles I've encountered breastfeeding, I also feel incredibly fortunate with the amount of support I've received. My OH has always been 100% behind me and never questioned that I was doing the right thing or tried to force me to use a bottle - and is extremely complimentary and appreciative of how well our son is doing, he's really massive now (well, long and relatively slim), is developing nicely, feeds himself well, smiles all the time and sleeps for long stretches at night (which I attribute to co-sleeping, that's another thing that saved our breastfeeding journey).

I belong to some really lovely online breastfeeding and general baby support groups, and have a great NCT group too. In our group, all 6 of us ladies breastfed our babies, 5 of us to 6 months, and 3 of us exclusively. I'm sure that's unheard of in some parts of the country... maybe even in some parts of London! Interestingly, 3 of our babies were tongue tied.

This area is so bf friendly, I never feel uncomfortable feeding in any of the pubs, caf?s, parks etc, and the breastfeeding caf?s are wonderfully supportive and helpful.

We're really lucky that King's College Hospital is nearby, it seems to have a clinic for everything, and I'm so grateful that I was able to get my son's tongue tie released there, and my breast abscess treated without the need for lancing. I didn't always have the best experience at the clinic though, as one of the times I went, the consultant reinserted a needle that she'd pulled out of the infected area - thus causing a very painful secondary infection - and another time I went, I explained the issues I'd had to a different consultant, who flatly told me to "just give up then"!

As I said at the beginning, it took 5 months for things to fall into place, but that was due to DS2 going through the mother of all fussy phases from weeks 10 to 20, and by that time I knew how breastfeeding felt if it was going well. The last 4 weeks of that phase were just dreadful though, he screamed and cried and refused to feed during the day unless I was walking around with him (often having to also sing songs to him too! It's a good job that phase is over as he's over 9kg and there's no way I could feed standing up now!), I actively looked forward to him waking in the middle of the night for feeds as it was the only time he didn't fuss and actually appeared grateful for my milk! If we went out in public I'd have to take him into a disabled loo to nurse him as there were no distractions, or just take him home and into a darkened room. It was around that time that I had my second bout of mastitis, which I attribute to his not draining my breasts properly. There are quite a few developmental 'leaps' around that time though, and if it wasn't for the Wonder Weeks book and app I'd have questioned if I didn't just have the child from hell!

But like I said, everything is going pretty well. Sometimes he feeds a lot, sometimes not so much, either way, my supply adapts really quickly. Weaning doesn't appear to have made any difference to his milk intake, but then we're taking a baby led approach, so not a great deal is going in yet! I'm so grateful to be able to feed my son anywhere at any time, without the need for forward planning, and I also appreciate the comfort breastfeeding provides for him ("when in doubt, whip 'em out!" ;-) )

The current challenge is that he's so big and strong now that it's not so much the issue of him pulling his head away if he gets distracted while feeding... he just climbs off me instead! He's also just had two teeth pop through - bottom thankfully - so I'm apprehensive about biting... but as a friend pointed out the other day, there's always nipple shields!

Hope that helps, sorry it was a bit of an essay but I'm on my laptop instead of phone for once, and I got a bit carried away!

Tara x