my son escaped from OAK TREE nursery (Tell Grove, SE22) on wed 7th may

[KatsuQueen]

I can't believe people are making personal attacks on the mother involved. Her child was found wandering on the road outside. This is the one biggest priority for any parent, is my child SAFE? All other "activities" and however "lovely/caring" the staff may be , how they are getting on with their little friends etc, these are all important but when you drop off your child, you must be confident that they are safe.

I don't have a child at oak tree but a child the same age at another nursery, and this has made me think about their security and if it can be improved. We just received an email reminding us of security during drop off /pick ups so I feel a bit reassured that they are scrutinising their own procedures.

[Otta]

Completely out of order to blame sweetgirl (who didn't go to the press, they came to her - had it been the other way round my opinion would be different). The nursery absolutely failed her and she has every right to be very upset.

But

"nothing has changed in terms of security since their report rating the nursery as 'good' so

doesn't really make any sense"

This is so typical of OFSTED. Christ I hate that organisation with a passion!

[fleur201]

Just read the post and absolutely gobsmacked!

Why are people attacking the the mother??!!!

If it were my child that was found wondering the streets alone I would have been FURIOUS!

Helen, you seem very negative towards the mother... wonder why?

and helen Please tell us all what YOU would have done if your child was wondering the streets alone?

Can't believe this....

[Stu]

Suggest at this stage that those of us with children at the nursery try and talk separately and productively rather than have it mixed in with people who wish to speculate/opinionate. I was going to tell others to 'butt out' but then again it is within our capabilities not to read this thread which is probably the most appropriate option. Hopefully you've been contacted by one of the others but if you need details let me . Know.

[Strawbs]

Well well well isn't this turning nasty! I am not a parent affected by the now closed nursery and I can only imagine how much of a nightmare that is for you but personal attacks against someone isn't acceptable. What if it had been your child? What if it was your child and they as a result were killed or taken by a pedophile? I am pretty sure you wouldn't be worrying about whether the nursery stays open or not. I can tell you now if it was my 2 year old that had gone missing and not only did they not notice but not seem to be too bothered once the child was returned I would make it my mission to take them down! The main point is being lost in all the emotion here that a small child was able to escape and upon returned the staff didn't seem to give a toss! How can anyone think that that is an acceptable level of care and want to then send their child there!

Whilst I don't agree with a sibling of any age dropping off someone at nursery it isn't constructive to be taking swipes and letting emotions get carried away.

I do hope everyone is able to find childcare and quick for their little ones what a nightmare this whole situation is for you all.

[Tmarr]

Miss Helen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ok sweetgirl, my daughter also goes there (oh

> well, not anymore thanks to you, this forum and

> itv). Now that you had the time to find another

> nursery to your son, please help all the other

> working parents who have the weekend only to make

> arrangements. So unfair with some of the staff as

> well as they are great and your little boy who

> could not see a door open that we would run away,

> wherever, whenever.

> Many many many thanks.

Can't believe what this person has posted!

How cruel!

[botucatu]

HOW ABOUT IF WE ALL MOVE ON, LET THE PARENTS INVOLVED DEAL WITH THE SITUATION AND STOP BUMPING THIS POST?

IS NOT HARD, IS IT? THE LITTLE BOY'S MOTHER HAS DONE, SO.... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, BUT IF YOU ARE NOT WEARING THEIR SHOES, KEEP YOURS TO YOURSELF...

[Newbie9]

botucatu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HOW ABOUT IF WE ALL MOVE ON, LET THE PARENTS

> INVOLVED DEAL WITH THE SITUATION AND STOP BUMPING

> THIS POST?

>

> IS NOT HARD, IS IT? THE LITTLE BOY'S MOTHER HAS

> DONE, SO.... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

>

> PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, BUT IF YOU ARE NOT

> WEARING THEIR SHOES, KEEP YOURS TO YOURSELF...

This is a situation that happened in our community and I feel everyone has a right to comment. Otherwise the OP would have removed it from the forum long ago.

[Otta]

It's a public forum, it doesn't work that way I'M AFRAID.

[Otta]

Cross posted.

[ianr]

> "nothing has changed in terms of security since

> their report rating the nursery as 'good' so

> doesn't really make any sense"

There has been a change. There is the additional evidence of the recent incident, plus anything gleaned from their inspection this week.

>

> This is so typical of OFSTED. Christ I hate that

> organisation with a passion!

You're speaking from a bad past experience. My default reading is different, though I've no real knowledge of their competence.

I assume that what has occurred is a suspension. I also assume that Ofsted probably thought that they had no real choice, given that they have a duty to uphold statutory requirements which include ensuring children's safety.

Do look at what they say about suspensions, at http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/suspension-information-for-providers-parents-and-carers-suspension-of-childcare. It opens:

"Sometimes we need to suspend a provider?s registration. We only do this if we believe a child or children may be at risk of harm. This does not always mean that the provider has done something wrong, but it does allow us time to investigate our concerns or give us or the provider time to take steps to reduce or remove any possible risk. We will end the suspension as soon as we are satisfied that children are not at risk."

They appear very open to dialogue about rectification, so the sooner people get talking and acting about solving the immediate problems, which I expect will be detailed in Ofsted's formal notice to the nursery, the better. There are some people in the nursery this morning, though I don't know what that indicates.

[mbrez]

I am horried by what has happened and some of the cruel and harsh responses here. Thankfully no harm came to Romeo. As far as I am concerened they are completely responsible. We had signed our son up for Oak Tree Nursery (Tell Grove) in November 2013 under Maria, we started the settling in period in March 2014. We were very unhappy about the nursery and the door security as my 3 year old son ran out of the door on his own, as well!! It was quite obvious to us that this was not correct door to have around children or for a nursery. So this is not a storm in a tea cup. I outlined ours concerns to Sylvia in an email sent on the 26th March - please see below!! Nothing was done, SHAME ON THEM and SHAME on all of you who defend them over an innocent child and mother!

I have removed our names...

Dear Sylvia,

We are very disappointed, but have taken the decision that Oak Tree Nursery is not the right fit for "our son", so he will not be attending. After the settling in period that both "my husband" and I attended we have several concerns, but the key one is safety.

Access in and out of the nursery front door is not secure and "our son" is a very curious and active child. "Our son" opened the door to exit on his own and while I attended a settling in day a man walked in the front door and asked to access the back. We were both shocked that entering and exiting the nursery is so easily done, this is not the case for other nurseries we have visited and not what we would expect.

We are not confident that he would be safe, nor is it the right environment for him.

[sweetgirl]

i have been following this thread closely, it just goes to show that some parents (no names mentioned!) quite clearly are not concerned about the welfare of their children...

theres no point discussing who collects or drops off the child, that has nothing to do with the issue... forumites like misstangsmile just want to jump on the bandwagon!

"yes, that's true. I never saw his parents to pick up him. I am so surprise he can do that without parents. his brother looks like 10 years old something, maybe not right. I talk to some friends, the nursery their kids go also happen similar accident before in north london and east london ,one of them is outstanding.but things did not goes this way.I don't say the accident is normal, it shouldn't happen."

WHATS THAT ALL ABOUT?

you will find out in time all those things i have hidden from the media, theres more to be revealed!

alot has been going on since january behind those nursery doors.... why do you think all but 3 i think, staff are new?

when i registered my son in early 2013, it was under the condition they didn't have a high staff turnover! maria assured me this was not the case!

january 2014 comes along & the nursery seems to have turned upside down!

i'll leave the rest to your imaginations... all will be revealed in time!

[sweetgirl]

[email protected]

0300 123 3155

incase anybody needs this information

[ianr]

"Before you contact our [Ofsted] hotline".

[JDR]

As a mother of three who ave attended terrible nurseries and amazing ones I have been astonished by this thread and the utterly inappropriate responses and character assassination that some parents have levelled at the OP. You should be ashamed! This forum has enough sniping but at a mother whose child was able to leave a nursery without anyone noticing! Seriously?!?

Get a grip and start phoning round. I did this when a nursery we attended had massive problems. You will find most nurseries have caveats in there prioritisation s and will allow you to jump up lists if you explain the circumstances.

In the meantime, don't make inappropriate judgements about someone whose care has not been called into question. She is the victim. Just imagine saying what you said if the child had been run over? Doesn't sound quite so appropriate does it....

Additional comments in edit. I work in health care. Being nice/ understanding/ getting people on side is an intrinsic part of my job. However, at no point does that negate me from my professional responsibilities. However nice I am, without correct procedures/ training / knowledge I would still be negligent and that is what has happened. Inconvenient, yes. However, ofsted are doing their job. The OP, another poster and Ofsted had noted problems about access.

I would suggest you re- evaluate how you judge a nursery. A nice feeling does not make it safe and therefore within legislation it fails.

[woo88]

sweetgirl Wrote:

> i'll leave the rest to your imaginations... all will be revealed in time!

I think all Oak Tree Nursery parents agree that very, *very* substantial changes are required; and many of us are aware of some serious issues with the nursery (beyond issues with the door). A group of current Oak Tree Nursery parents are trying hard to get a much better nursery up-and-running ASAP at Oak Tree (although that might take a while).

From now on, if you care about getting the best nursery up and running as quickly as possible, please can I ask people to resist the temptation to feed the media? i.e. if the media call you then please consider saying "thanks but no thanks". The media's continued involvement in this issue is likely to just add noise and panic and really isn't conducive to a level-headed, constructive conversation between the parties who are directly involved with the nursery (i.e. the parents and OFSTED).

Many elements in the media simply don't care about getting a good nursery up and running. All they care about is telling the best "story" to maximise their audience (no matter if that story contains significant flaws). Their interests conflict with the interests of the parents, so - as a parent - I'd ask folks to please not feed the media anything more.

Please note that I'm certainly not arguing for censorship or "keeping quiet". I'm just asking that, instead of sending info to the media, please use the official channels for communicating complaints about the nursery. This seems like the best chance to get a great nursery up and running as quickly as possible.

[Convex]

I agree with woo88. As a parent I need a safe place for my kids for when I return to work and I'm doing everything I can to make that happen. In this case I believe it's working with the nursery and ofsted.

If there are incidents to be reported then please do so through the proper channels. The EDF can't fix it and neither can the daily mail.

If you don't want to call ofsted then email the nursery or pm me and I will fold it into what we as parents are doing. It's our kids involved so we aren't going to sweep anything under the carpet.

[alice]

yes but if you go through the proper channels and not get listened to.

why shouldnt you go to the media?

[Convex]

Ofsted have listened so far, they have shut the nursery!

[MrsC]

I have just read this entire thread and I cannot believe that the mother who must have been traumatised beyond belief, is now bearing the blame for the closure of this nursery. It is their fault, period. I'm sure that some of the staff are kind and nurturing, but their role is to keep your children safe, and they failed, hence the closure. Arranging child care is a pain and very time consuming, but a missing child, come on......that is every parents nightmare??

[sillywoman]

I haven't read the last page, but have been following this with interest. Fifteen years ago I took my daughter out of Oaktree and sent her to Dulwich Village Preschool. It was a mistake and she wasn't happy there, but that's not my point. A few years later, in the Autumn of 2000 I was waiting, with a friend to collect a child from that preschool and a woman came running down the path (this was when the nursery was in the old cricket pavilion next to the Belair park river) and disappeared round the side of the building. She came back holding a small child. It was her child, it was her first day at nursery and she'd been left outside when the children were called in after playing.

No-one in the nursery had noticed that little girl was missing, No-one. They didn't even realise until the Mother knocked on their door with her child in her arms. My friend and I had been waiting there a good 15 minutes so she must have been left alone for at least that long, possibly longer. Neither of us realised she was there as she was around a corner. The little girl on realising she was all alone in a strange place had seen her pushchair, left on the veranda by her mother that morning, and went to curl up in it. This was lucky as the nursery was sited then between the river and Gallery road, which is - as you know - fast moving and a scary prospect for an unaccompanied 2 year old. All three of us - the childs mother, my friend and I, were utterly horrified, and the child clearly traumatised. That child obviously never returned to that nursery, and that incident was the push I ended to take my child out. That nursery called no meeting of parents as far as I recall and is still going strong on the south circular. I don't see much difference between that incident and this one other than the use of their forum and the power of the media for the mother to vent her distress and ge the nursery closed.

It's a shame really.

[sweetgirl]

it has come to my attention these recent meetings held in the nursery are suddenly bringing all sorts of things to light, let us all understand one thing, this is not a staff issue but a management issue!

if the nursery was managed properly in the first instance & the previously highlighted problem of security dealt with when it was first raised maybe i wouldn't be in this mess right now.... & the other parents too!

i have had to take time off work, & guess what? i prefer to be with my son rather than expose him to a place where he wasn't kept safe!

gardenfun, misshelen & misstangsmile... looks like your all hiding under the stone you crawled out from!

the bottom line is our children need to be kept safe but unfortunately my son wasn't!

the owner is the person pulling all the strings, yes the newly appointed manager has alot to answer for but it is the owner who is above her.... also bear in mind the manager has been there only 4 months+.

in my opinion, carework involving vulnerable people, whether it be children or adults.... you need to have workers who are outspoken & not afraid to raise issues when they arise!

lets hope now all those wonderful parents who are trying to get the nursery up & running again, will all get a better nursery at the expense of the troubles my family & i have endured!

i am very happy to say my son is still with me as it could've ended up a different situation altogether!

as for convex, i hope you ensure that the parents will have some type of input in the way the nursery is run too!

[Trimbler]

As a mother of a three year old, my heart goes out to all of you who are affected by this really traumatic incident. Please understand that I in no way wish to undermine the efforts of those doing their best to get an apparently otherwise good nursery back up and running with the evident safety issue resolved. However I know that many parents could never send their children there again and must be desperately searching for alternatives, so I hope that the following will help somebody in their search.

We can highly recommend two different childcare settings which my son has loved, both of which have immediate vacancies and very competitive rates. Amott Road preschool (http://amottroadpreschool.weebly.com) offers term-time childcare every weekday morning (9:15 - 12:15, flexible on days so part-time is possible) for children aged 2.5 to 4 years, it's a really friendly and supportive environment, serving the local community for over twenty years, but sadly under-publicised recently, despite its recent 'good' Ofsted rating. So it's ready to receive several children right now, and even more from September. I realise this might not help those of you who need childcare for the whole day, but that brings me on to my other recommendation. We're sad to be leaving our childminder tomorrow (as I'm now on maternity leave), and would love to recommend her as she has looked after our son for almost 3 years and has been brilliant. She works 8am - 5pm Mondays to Thursdays (again, flexible on days) and has even been dropping off and collecting our son from Amott Road since he turned 3, so that he could have consistency as well as a more structured setting to prepare him for school. Please pm me for more details as I haven't sought her permission to put her contact details up here!

As I said, I just really hope that this will help someone caught in a desperate situation, and that whatever the outcome you will all be able to find the right solution for your families.

[sweetgirl]

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/00,news,26797,185,00.htm