Mother of all Council Houses

[Keef]

Mischief making man!

I don't think for a second Jeremy is suggesting the war is speculation, just that it carries little weight in this situation. More or less the point you made earlier wasn't it? ;-)

[Huguenot]

:))

Just a bit of fun ;-)

[mockney piers]

"Good point but didn't they initially grab power after being given military support by the Americans during the cold war?"

I know this is a side conversation, but no. The Americans did support the Mujahadeen, but those fighters will happily tell you that said support was marginal, except insofar as a couple of shipments of stinger missiles (some of which ended up in S Armagh) did hamper the Soviet's freedom to helicopter troops, a bit.

Post soviet withdrawal (skint rather than defeated as such, maybe realisation that killing a milion afghans hadn't actaully achieved anything either) a rather brutal period of warlord rule and civil war ensued which ended in much of the country when the Taliban took power. For those, particularly in Kabul, who saw the civil war end, the Taliban were marginally the lesser of two evils, but few of the several million refugees from the previous 2 decades of strife (far and away the highest ex pat refugee population in the world) actually chose to return.

The Taliban were pretty much entirely the creation of the Pakistani secret service, setting up the madrassas amongst the forlorn refugees that server as recruiting centres, in order that they could consolidate a hold over the area, a very successful policy frankly. The US had links with the Taliban as they thought them a buffer to Iranian ambitions, but were very much minor supporters and far from responsible.

The ISI (Pakistan's security service) has still not forgiven the US for kicking the Taliban out of power. The ISI's hand has been suspected in much activity that has destabilised Pakistan since, including the assassination of Bhuto, and have supported the "Taliban's" resurgence.

Long story short, yes Britain has dropped bombs on Afghanistan, no that's not why she left, Taliban is not the west's fault, but as hardly any of the promised cash to rebuild the country has actually ended up their in any other form than military, we can't exactly hold our heads up high.

However the intention is to eventually create a stable state to which people can return. A fluffy, friendly state with women's rights is however a very long way off and there's little we can do about that to be fair.

Aaaaanyway...as you were....

[SeanMacGabhann]

I think we need to focus on the whole "Dickensian aspect"

;-)

[Moos]

A fluffy, friendly state with women's rights is however a very long way off and there's little we can do about that to be fair.

I feel a little unkind saying this to Mockers as I know he pretty much defines Good Egg, but did you really mean to put women's rights and fluffy in the same sentence?

[Brendan]

Oh come on Mockney. That?s just the plot from Rambo III.

And I think you will find that the currently accepted term is fluffy-wuffy.

[mockney piers]

Did I forget the lady bumps?

[Moos]

Do you mean speed tables?

[mockney piers]

sleeping policemen most def

[Jeremy]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mischief making man!

>

> I don't think for a second Jeremy is suggesting

> the war is speculation, just that it carries

> little weight in this situation. More or less the

> point you made earlier wasn't it? ;-)

Yep... just pointing out that we have no way of knowing whether "we bombed her home" as has been suggested, whether she left because of the recent war, whether she was seeking asylum from the Taleban, or whatever.

[ratty]

Maybe she just fancied a fook off great big house and thought - "I know, Ealing Council are a soft touch and thumbed a lift over here!" ;)

[SeanMacGabhann]

is the story this sort of thing is happening all the time? Because if it isn't then it's just a small statistical blip that happens in any system. From what I read in the Standard (I know.. I know) today, 3 people in the council have been sacked because of it and they are actively looking to rehouse the family in cheaper accomodation anyway.

So what's the fuss about really?

And has it been worth the price of unleashing all the bile that's out there? If 1% of that mob used 1% ofthat energy and focused it on things that REALLY affect their lives then we might see some positive changes...

[Brendan]

Crazy idea here, completely unprecedented I know and couldn?t possibly work but here you go: Regulate the cost of private rentals and if you are going to have a social housing system make sure the councils have enough of their own housing stock.

I know I know it sounds nuts. It was just one of those mad thoughts I sometimes have.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Brendan

You'll be suggesting that some of the financial institutions getting these billions will have to meet some conditions next - crazy communist!

[Keef]

If 1% of that mob used 1% ofthat energy and focused it on things that REALLY affect their lives then we might see some positive changes...

Bloody hippy!

[Brendan]

I know. I?m sorry. And to think that the only reason they let us play with guns at school was on the proviso that one day we would shoot communists with them.

Hopefully one day the government will employ someone to make sure I don?t write this sort of dangerous nonsense when I have me little turns.

[Jeremy]

> Regulate the cost of private rentals

No. It would be unworkable.

> if you are going to have a social housing system make sure the councils have enough of their own housing stock.

Yes. Blame past governments who have encouraged people to buy their council flats, for the sake of a short term cash injection.

[Moos]

is the story this sort of thing is happening all the time? Because if it isn't then it's just a small statistical blip that happens in any system. From what I read in the Standard (I know.. I know) today, 3 people in the council have been sacked because of it and they are actively looking to rehouse the family in cheaper accomodation anyway.

So what's the fuss about really?

And has it been worth the price of unleashing all the bile that's out there? If 1% of that mob used 1% ofthat energy and focused it on things that REALLY affect their lives then we might see some positive changes...

This reads as oddly familiar. Strange.

[Huguenot]

Going to sound snotty here, but... weird one on immigration:

The population of Singapore is only 4.5m, and the current business plan [sic] is to make it 6m inside 5 years. It's a very mixed bag with three major languages and many more religions.

From a practical perspective it's as near a zero crime environment as statistics can get. Blaming multiculturalism for UK crime or benefit fraud is pretty infantile.

Racism is peculiar in SG in that it's commercial rather than divisive (tribal rather than exclusive), and homosexuality is unfortunately illegal but sensibly never challenged (to paraphrase the government, 'this country does not have a view on private activity'). I should add that public displays of affection are discouraged whatever your orientation.

I struggle to believe that the UK's perception of diversity is being met when the ethnic origin of the occupant of a council flat is necessary to discuss whether councils are paying too much?

Wouldn't it be quite enough to discuss the family size and location?

[Moos]

Quite enough, Huguenot. And the fact of their being an immigrant family is equally irrelevant: they are legitimately in the UK and legitimately claiming housing.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I suspect that not many contributors on this thread,thus far,have attempted to gain Council funded accommodation in any shape or form.:))

It would be fascinating to hear from anyone here who continually, for literally decades, could not obtain said assistance from their local Council during that period and how they feel about someone with no previous allegiance or connection with this Country arriving and receiving PRIORITY service over themselves!

Can anyone explain to me why any Family arriving legitimately from abroad should be given PRIORITY over the indigenous population of this Country when it comes to Local Government assisted housing?

I'm reminded of a friend who told me around 6 months ago that there would be no accomodation available from his local Council for years to come. Who were that Council? Why the very same = Ealing!

[????]

TLS - don't hold your breath, if you're white, british and working class you're scum....and will be accused of racism for raising the point

[nunheadbelle]

They haven't got enough propoerties left to house them in, they've sold them off to tenants under the Right to Buy. These lucky people have now made a massive profit on selling these homes on the open market so they can buy their dream homes. Thus, the Council has to use private properties; I wouldn't be surprised if they were taking on the properties that were originally bought by some of the tenants.

It's become a farce. Council housing was originally for people on low incomes, who couldn't afford to rent privately but there are people living in them now who are doctors, lawyers, businessmen etc. They probably became doctors, lawyers etc after securing the accommodation but I think that once people in Council properties earn over a certain amount, they should be made to find their own accommodation and the properties left for others who need them.

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Crazy idea here, completely unprecedented I know

> and couldn?t possibly work but here you go:

> Regulate the cost of private rentals and if you

> are going to have a social housing system make

> sure the councils have enough of their own housing

> stock.

>

> I know I know it sounds nuts. It was just one of

> those mad thoughts I sometimes have.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

???? Wrote:

TLS - don't hold your breath, if you're white, british and working class you're scum....and will be accused of racism for raising the point

Sadly,my profile is worse than that,much worse,in fact....and I have a further confession to make (although,to be fair I think its become quite apparent now)...

I'm also mmmm...can't even bring myself to write it down. I'll try again and write it down as "discreetly" as possible.....

I'm mmmmmmale as well (hopefully I disguised that word as well as I could)..What a Combo for 2008 :)) but there is one cause for celebration though!

Drum Roll please Maestro:-

Remember it is working people who have paid all their taxes and other deductions throughout( in my case 37 working years) that are funding this and NOT the Governments or Local Councils who have no money of their own.

This means that many of the Guys who could NOT get any property through the social housing schemes either now or in the past are helping to contribute and subsidise those who have come here and paid nothing whatsoever by way of taxes and have obtained Council assisted Housing (!)

I,re-iterate a very salient point. This subsidy of others who have been forced to flee from wartorn Countries ( by no means the majority) to The UK would be much more acceptable if they themselves could have received the same benefits which in many cases from The Late 1960's onwards were denied to them when THEY were desperately in need of them!

So they not only have to contend with the fact that the system has been heavily biased against them for decades but have to help pay for people who have leapfrogged over them in the queue and have gained said Housing who have not paid anything at all (in some cases).>:D<

p.s Its akin to someone who is,say,24-26 years old now, trying to gain a Promotion within the same Company for the next 15 years without success and when a promotional opportunity finally arises not only does it go to someone coming in from elsewhere but they are forced to contribute to his/her greater salary,as well.:))

[Huguenot]

I think your point about sold off properties may not be quite right, as council housing is still estimated to be around 20% of the country's housing stock.

I also note that according to census, in 1971 over 70% of council housing tenants were economically active, this has now dropped to less than 40%. This means there are less 'rich' people in council housing than there have been at any time in the past.

The largest challenge with council housing is not immigration, but security of tenure. This means that couples whose extended families have long since flown the nest, or upwardly mobile familes, are still living in large family homes and can't be down-sized. IMHO this isn't reasonable as it doesn't conform with the social precept 'from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs etc.'. However, I can imagine the outcry at granny being kicked out of the family home.

It isn't racist to say that internal revenue should support local contributors as a priority. However it is disingenuous to claim that you're 'getting your own money back'. The majority of those receiving social support take out far more than they ever contribute, meaning that they're accepting funds from total strangers. Not all of these total strangers are likely to accept one person's perspective on who is the most needy.