Witchcraft in Dulwich Park?

[Jah Lush]

I know the lane that you're all talking about here, and before you ask I don't indulge in such practices, it's been like that since the 60s. It used to be known as Lovers Lane then. It's the road that leads up to the Dulwich & Sydenham Golf Club just before the Toll Gate. I do hope this has put you out of your suspenders. Whoops! Sorry, Freudian slip. Oh! there I go again. I'll get me coat.

[Domitianus]

Errrr.filth? DM? What exactly is 'filth' about them? I take it your own offspring arrived via the stork?

[dulwichmum]

Dear Domitianus,

"What exactly is 'filth' about them?"

Perhaps you and Mrs Domitianus consider "dogging" a normal part of your relationship (because that is what we were talking about)- but it is not really for everyone darling. I apologise for refering to your little hobby as filth - tomorrow is Good Friday, and I have been in the company of Fr O'Connor. Perhaps it has caused me to be a little judgemental?

Certainly my children consider themselves to have arrived via the stork, and they always will as far as myself and my darling husband are concerned.

Good for you for refusing to consider your hobby as filth. Maybe you should start off your own thread just for you perverts?

[Incitatus]

"I have heard there is in Dulwich a certain lane not unconnected with certain practices indulged in by a famous footballer."

Stan Collymore is not the only Premiership player to be involved in ?dogging?. The Spurs back four have been spotted standing around, watching other people score for ages.

The old ones are always the best ones

[dulwichmum]

Now, now boys lets move on. Even witchcraft as a topic must be better than this!

You can join Mr Domitianus in his special perverts thread if you must, Incitatus...

[Domitianus]

Although I have never personally "dogged" I would certainly not condemn those who find excitement in such consensual activity. Always easy and rather evades discussion to be simply able to label people via terms such as "pervert" so I will avoid calling DM an "unimaginative and repressed prude". See how charitable I am for Easter?

[dulwichmum]

Dear Domitianus,

indeed a prude I am and also - the first to admit it! I would rather be a prued than a pervert - any day of the week!

[Domitianus]

So judgmental. Anyone who has tastes or interests beyond your own must be labelled in a derogatory manner in order for you to be able to dismiss something beyond the confines of your own prejudice? How limited a world view that is. How very ED as well, the hub of middle-class complacency.

[dulwichmum]

Dear Domitianus,

Of course I am judgemental - I am a Roman Catholic married mother of two - it is my job to pass on to my children their cultural heritage of guilt and self denial. I am certainly not complacent;-).

You however are intolerant of women, particularly those of different faiths to yours.

Yes Domitianus you are so cosmopolitan and tolerant - when it comes to sexual deviance.

DM

[Domitianus]

I beg your pardon!!!! Your comments are offensive and totally baseless. For a start I have differed with your opinion on the activities of others which you inaugurated this discussion by describing in abusive terms such as "filth" and "perverts", I have not mentioned your religious beliefs. If such terms as "filth" and "pervert", used by you, did not introduce a tone of intolerance for others I don't know what could do so. Secondly, until you chose to raise it, I was completely unaware of your religious origin so could hardly be intolerant of it. If you believe that defending the right of other people to express their own sexual desires without being labelled "filth" and "perverts" by those unaffected by such desires represents intolerance of your religious beliefs, then that is the only manner in which my comments could be considered so. I doubt if anyone would subscribe to your definition however.

I am perfectly prepared to tolerate your decision to express your religious/cultural/sexual identity as you see fit. I am sugesting that you afford others the same rights and that it is highly intolerant to use a public forum to describe those with different views to yourself as in the derogatory, insulting way you have.

As for my intolerance of women which you mention????? I am completely unable to fathom where you have even dredged this idea up from so am unable to respond to this baseless assertion. Perhaps further elucidation on this point by you (such as the provision of the slightest shred of evidence) would enable me to respond.

[dulwichmum]

Dear Domitianus,

I gleaned my opinion regarding your misogyny and religious intolerance from the opinions you have been expressing on another thread:

Women only sessions at the Dulwich Leisure Centre pool,

particularly towards those of the muslim faith.

Perhaps you should read the opinions you have expressed there again? I have...

[Domitianus]

Your comments are becoming increasingly divorced from the facts. If you read the ther posting you refer to (accurately, with reference to what is actually said, rather than what you think or wish was said) you will be well aware that I have been arguing for equality for all people regardless of gender, faith, sexual orientation etc etc. I have therefore objected to special provision for people on the grounds of gender, faith etc etc, when that provision directly discriminates against others of an alternative faith, gender, etc etc. The reference to Muslim women that I have made (and I also referred to men, women, straights, gay/lesbians etc) is not any sort of demonstration of intolerance for them - it is an objection to special provision being made at the expense of others who are necessarily then discriminated against.

I must say it is a matter of mystery to me how someone who dismisses alternative lifestyles as "perverted", "filth" etc can have the affrontery to then accuse another of intolerance, particularly someone who then goes on to nail her flag to the mast as a member of a religious tradition that has a historic and contemporary reputation for extreme tolerance of alternative faiths, sexualities, lifestyles etc and which has a notoriously misogynistic view of women.

[Domitianus]

Your comments are becoming increasingly divorced from the facts. If you read the ther posting you refer to (accurately, with reference to what is actually said, rather than what you think or wish was said) you will be well aware that I have been arguing for equality for all people regardless of gender, faith, sexual orientation etc etc. I have therefore objected to special provision for people on the grounds of gender, faith etc etc, when that provision directly discriminates against others of an alternative faith, gender, etc etc. The reference to Muslim women that I have made (and I also referred to men, women, straights, gay/lesbians etc) is not any sort of demonstration of intolerance for them - it is an objection to special provision being made at the expense of others who are necessarily then discriminated against.

I must say it is a matter of mystery to me how someone who dismisses alternative lifestyles as "perverted", "filth" etc can have the affrontery to then accuse another of intolerance, particularly someone who then goes on to nail her flag to the mast as a member of a religious tradition that has a historic and contemporary reputation for extreme intolerance of alternative faiths, sexualities, lifestyles etc and which has a notoriously misogynistic view of women.

[dulwichmum]

Dear Dominatrix,

I know it is dreadful! I cannot believe it myself that I am RC - it so goes against everything I believe, but I was Christened as a baby, and I hate to argue with my mother... she makes Ian Paisley look like Mr Blobbey.

I can only put it down to the fact that today is a 'black fast' day, and that I have not had any alcohol or chocolate for almost 40 days, the excitement is killing me - I need sugar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Sunday morning - all hell will let loose in my house - there will be corks popping and wall to wall chocolate (fair trade of course) - it is the thought of that - that is helping me to plough on. My husband says I have been scowling for the last 6 weeks... Have you any thoughts on Botox?

[Domitianus]

Have a grteat SUnday. Anyway, I thought Ian Paisley was Mr Blobby. Have they ever been seen in the same room together? I think we should be told :))

[beth]

There is no way you can claim tolerance or support diversity Domitianus, judging by your other posts in other threads.

Also, dogging is not recogised as a legitatmate sexuality as is lesbian and gay sexuality is anyway.

[Huguenot]

Oh crikey! Poor old Dom!

For the record everything I've read of Dom's posts support both tolerance and diversity. Bizarrely it does seem to be those who have intolerant,divisive or separatist views that rail against this poor chap the most. I take it that's because the one thing that Dom doesn't tolerate is intolerance and narrow-mindedness.

[beat that for a logic hole]

Incidentally please don't take this as support of dogging, which I find to be quite unreasonable behaviour. I consider it this since the nature of the thrill is the risk of being caught, and this in itself is only a 'risk' if the discoverer had the potential to be offended.

Being caught remains entertaining only because the dogger doesn't consider him/herself at risk due to the offence they've caused the passerby, which is reliant on the compliance of passerby with unaggresive social conditioning. Hence the dogger is deliberately causing offence with no chance of come-back.

So, if you can work that one through.... dogging is the equivalent of punching people in wheelchairs. Neither perverted nor filthy, but pretty disappointing.

[Huguenot]

BTW Beth, I'm terrified at the thought that there is a committee out there who decides what is or isn't legitimate sexuality? Who are these people? Who gave them the right to decide? Where do I find their edicts? What is the penalty for non-compliance? Are you to be our local representative? ;-)

Only kidding!

*quakes in boots and looks nervously over shoulder...*

[dulwichmum]

Dear Huguenot,

The most objectionable thing of all about 'Dogging' is that (I read in a copy of my father-in-laws Daily Mail) the guy who plays Phil Mitchel on Eastenders was caught in the act and is an avid fan! Imagine him climbing into your Volvo XC90 up off College Road one night, with love on his mind?

OHMYGOD! It is enough to make anyone monogamous. Lets all draw the curtains and come away from the bay window, God only knows who is out there...

[trinity]

I hadn't heard about the canine goings on but I had heard that there was a very active swinging community in Dulwich. Can't say I'm tempted myself but at least they are doing it indoors.

[dulwichmum]

Yes Trinity, I have been given that impression on more than one occasion! At least they are behind closed doors, and not making particular roads "no go" areas after dark.

I still can't get Phil Mitchels face out of my head.

Apparently those big cream bushy pampass grasses growing in your garden means you are a 'swinger'. My neighbours just opposite have one...

[Domitianus]

Thanks for the vote of support Hugenot. I am glad that there are those who appreciate the message I am trying to get across. I suggest that if Beth read the whole chains of correspondence again the penny might drop. It can be simply stated - when you favour any group through 'positive discrimination' (an oxymoron if ever there was one) you automatically and necessarily discriminate against the other groups not so favoured.

[dulwichmum]

Don't you agree though Mr Domitianus,

That chap from Eastenders should be prevented from reproducing? He has put me right off my cheese and biscuits!

[beth]

My last post on this thread ((I'm resigning from these email debates now) is simply that I don't buy into the libertarian arguement you put forth on diversity and equality - in the end libertarianism is flawed when it comes to recogising the differing needs of different groups in society. That's all. i.e. if men aren't accessing healthcare services (which they aren't), those health care services need to respond to the problem and address it.

Oh - and that I actually agree with Hugo on something - that dogging is simply disappointing, not necessarily perverted.

Farewell all and good luck!

[Keef]

Beth I hope that doesn't mean you're going to stop posting altogether!?