Just seen this - are we at chain tipping point locally?

[StraferJack]

" You got what your short sightedness wanted."

can you guess what I want next?

[eastdulwichhenry]

When is a McDonald's going to open in Lordship Lane?

[Otta]

We can but dream Henry!

[Jennys]

Is there a local plan for the area regarding the proportion of independent businesses as opposed to chains?

[LondonMix]

You can't control who can sign a lease with a private landlord. Only if the premises require redevelopment do the authorities get involved and even then only for matters falling under planning law which doesn't include the tenant per se.

This thread is absurd. Small indie units are still opening so it's premature to call their demise. Callows which is now on Melbourne grove was replaced by an indie jewellery store. Odonnos replaced the flower shop, the Patch is an indie pub. Franco Manca is taking over the draft house. These units are too small for anything besides small scale shops which is why the are indies / small chains.

The larger premises have been chains for some time. M&S replacing Iceland is not more chains, it's one chain replacing another...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Well said LondonMix

[Zebedee Tring]

One might think, reading most of the posts on this thread, that everything about independent shops was wonderful while everything about multiples was terrible. Well, it ain't quite so simple.

For example, the Food Standards Agency rating for the East Dulwich Deli for July 2013 (most recent rating): 1 out of 5 - "Major improvement necessary".

[Louisa]

LondonMix. I disagree.

As discussed previously, if you compare lordship lane in 2000 to now, the number of chains locally (including estate agents) has tripled. Arguably, Iceland isn't the type of chain store to pull in other chains, M&S however, based on the demographics of the area is a classic example of how one shop can encourage others into an area. Exactly the same happened in Northcote Road not too many years ago.

I agree we still have lots of independents locally, and yes the shops are small, but other areas have seen the same process regardless of the size of the unit available (I've seen possibly the smallest Wagamama on earth in Chiswick). I agree there is no point trying to control market forces, if I had my way there would be a number of chains I enjoy along that road, not that they will ever come. However, all I am saying is, we have once again reached the same point we reached in 2007/8 just before the financial crisis when Cafe Nero, Foxtons, JoJo Maman Bebe, Oliver Bonas, GBK, White stuff all rushed into the area in the short space of under two years. Now we have a situation of growing financial stability, and a cinema (evening weekend footfall), again smaller boutique style chains, large coffee/restaurant chains etc will now start to look again at ED as they did back in 07/08, and another chunk of the independent retail spots will disappear. If you like that then that's fine, just say so, but like I've always said it's good to have a healthy mix of the two.

Louisa.

[EmED]

I actually really like Northcote road.

Hopefully all the successful and good small independent businesses on Lordship Lane like the brilliant butcher and fishmonger, ToastED etc will continue to thrive, and there will be more interesting additions like Franco Manca :)

I think there's room for another cafe if it was a really good one...with Luca's closing I don't think there are that many great breakfast options around...

[Nigello]

Luca's - I was there last Friday and had a nice scrambled egg with tea (in a pot) for ?4.70. Has it closed since? Blue Brick Cafe is great, and Pretty's ?5 deal is hard to beat, though Duck Egg (?) near it is good too.

[EmED]

I think Luca's is meant to be closing sadly, and is apparently being replaced by a sushi chain, according to the people in Cave de Bruno. I haven't been to Blue Brick or Pretty's, so will definitely check them out...thanks!

I would love an Antipodean style cafe with good smoothies, eggs benedict, waffles, pancakes, french toast, good granola with berries, interesting salads and cakes etc.

[worldwiser]

There are only 23 chains in the immediate ED area (ie from Sainsburys to the Townley Clinic and incl. Northcross Road and Melbourne Gv) not including banks or the post office or charity shops.

I can't post the names because the forum won't let me apparently.

This out of a total of 216 units of all sizes in that same zone. Therefore the current rate of chains is 10.6%. If you get rid of the very large units, it's only 17 or 7.8%. This is ridiculously low. What are you all complaining about?

[LondonMix]

Exactly world wiser. The indies that sadly fail have been replaced by other indies. Cave de Bruno taking over Old Villa and ToastED taking over Green and Blues.

@ Louisa: I don't prefer chains to indies. All things being equal I prefer indies and use many on LL. More than indie or not I like specific shops. For instance, The Flying Pig is a favourite as are the Flower Shop on North X, Callows, Dulwich DIY, the Patch, Pretty's, Mrs Robinson, Odonnos and Il Mirto.

I also like Sainsbo, GBK, Lloyds pharmacy, and Oliver Bonas. I would also love to see Ping Pong open here! I'm thrilled about the cinema.

I could do without the Coop and have never been in Cafe Nero or White Stuff.

I just want a high street with services and amenities I want to use period and I think the idea that a wave of chains is moving in so far is totally unfounded. I can't think of any recently at all.

[MissKing]

I've never used the ED deli - franklins has all that kind of stuff along with farmer's veg. Maybe earlier posters have hit the nail on the head about a lack if a USP? I like independents but chains do add convenience. I don't think the area would suffer from a boots or decent clothes shop in my opinion.

[EmED]

I totally agree Miss King. I would really love a boots or a decent clothes shop.

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't see why they couldn't half the floorspace,

> reduce their rent, and still shift almost as much

> stuff (the deli counter seems to be their... er..

> bread and butter). People complain about the

> service, but I like the shop. It was one of the

> original trailblazers, along with Franklins,

> Cheeseblock, Blue Mountain, etc. ED would be worse

> off if these guys hadn't set up shop years ago.

xxxxxx

I agree with all that.

[alice]

used to get a good bacon sandwich in that cafe

[James]

Gave up on Luca's due to repeatedly shambolic, dreadful, rude service.

If an indie is good, I wish them all the best. Rather that than a chain any day. But better a decent chain than a rubbish independent. We don't owe anyone our business.

[Jeremy]

I guess my thoughts are similar to James. It's great that we have independent shops in ED (also in Peckham, Forest Hill, Herne Hill, etc) but they should (and often do) differentiate themselves from chains by offering something different, perhaps in terms of service, quality, range, atmosphere, or even location. Customers using a business out of loyalty/charity are IMO misguided.

[buggie]

EmED Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think Luca's is meant to be closing sadly, and

> is apparently being replaced by a sushi chain,

> according to the people in Cave de Bruno. I

> haven't been to Blue Brick or Pretty's, so will

> definitely check them out...thanks!

>

> I would love an Antipodean style cafe with good

> smoothies, eggs benedict, waffles, pancakes,

> french toast, good granola with berries,

> interesting salads and cakes etc.

The cafe you describe (albeit without the antipodean slant) is in ED: The French Cafe on Forest Hill Road,

[Mustard]

Noticed today that the Furniture Mart next to Kwik Fit has closed down. It was open a couple of days ago.

[LondonMix]

Agree with James and Jeremy

[steveo]

Bring back Savarin's Saturday hangover breakfast

A few old timers might remember

[alice]

def best bacon sandwich

[alice]

def best bacon sandwich ever