Grammar, punctuation and syntax irritations

[SeanMacGabhann]

I wonder how much of Tony from the Burbs arguments are never taken on board purely because his approach to layout and punctuation remain so... idiosynchratic

I make plenty of typos (and probably upset Michale P with many a split infinitive - I've never got the hang of those) so I try not to pick anyone up on their own mistakes - but if someone is going to go out of the way to make a point that language doesn't reeaaaaaaly matter then I will probably get upset. No matter how you rank yourself in the grammar "league tables", chances are most of what you have achieved/gotten away with in life so far are because of your ability to translate your cunning/ideas/whatever via language.

If you wilfully ignore it's benefits then you stand a much greater chance of being ignored yourself. If you want to do better in anything (argue your points on a forum, get a better job, change career completely, woo a partner) then your ability to understand language and use it properly - in the approriate context - will give you an advantage over everyone else after the same thing

Some people are better at it than others and people shouldn't be judged on it alone - but anyone who says it doesn't matter is making a rod for their own back IMO

[mockney piers]

I assume ironic use of the saxon genitive on the impersonal pronoun there SMG, if not then your argument is totally invalid I'm afraid.

[Moos]

Ah, someone who knows what they are talking about! Tell us about the use of conjugation and case in English Mockers, I've never really understood it. Why does if take the subjunctive, for example?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Ha - very good

Well obviously cranking out messages in between excel sheets and with a boss hanging over my shoulder is going to hinder good copy. But if I make mistakes, I care about them...

[ruffers]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> NO!

Good

Didn?t think so.

Would of is the one really getting me at the moment as it?s just become so common, you see it all over the web in particular. I think most people getting apostrophes and the alike wrong probably know they might not be 100% accurate, it?s my feeling though that people think ?would of? is correct as that?s how people tend to say it.

A losing battle.

[PeckhamRose]

Not that anyone was arksing, but does the fact no-one really knows that the word is "ask" anymore, bother anyone?

[Brendan]

Try being dyslexic and a sub-editor. It?s a right pain in the bum.

It?s just a godsend I?ve become so good at covering it up.

[Moos]

Yes, it's a moving feast, otherwise it'd be classified as a dead language. Spelling was only invented a couple of hundred years ago, blah blah etc.

I'd quite like to reintroduce 'thee' and 'thou' for friends and lovers, and keep 'ye' and 'you' for people I don't know. I think it would be fun.

[PeckhamRose]

Ooh ohh ooh and the other thing that gets me is, someone arks:

"Have you got...?"

and then the answer is "No I don't", though it should be "No I haven't".

Yeah.

Arksing. Grrr

[mockney piers]

The subjunctive normally implies doubt, desire and stuff.

Hence you don't need to use it if your 'if' simply denotes an option: If you are a then I am B.

However once doubt is introduced: if you were to be A then I would be B, along comes your subjunctive.

In fact I was taught very little at school, it wasn't until I went to Spain to learn my native lingo a bit more proper like, that I was finally taught grammar and spent most of my lessons thinking, 'ooh, English does that too!!'

Subjunctive is a right pain in Spanish as it's applied for all sorts of weird reasons such as the subject changing mid sentence: 'El dice que yo sea....' although feel free to correct me proper native Spanish speakers.

Mind you the English subjunctive example earlier would use conditional rather than subjunctive in Spanish, so it's all horribly complicated!!!

[david_carnell]

You, Moos, keep thy opinion to thee-self.

[Moos]

OK, thanks Mockers.

My question was about saying 'if I were to do x' which is correct, as distinct from 'if I was to do x' - when I asked someone why they said 'because "if" takes the subjunctive'. So I guess 'were' is subjunctive, because of the doubt. I just didn't know until that point that English had case.

D_C, you are over-familiar.

[shoshntosh]

i do notice it (grammar and spelling) but am much more concerned about the thrust of an argument

and about how eloquently/creatively it is conveyed than i am about whether it is grammatically perfect.

context being everything, of course.

i would never ever ever ever ever ever ever even think about, say, dating someone who had poor grammar

and spelling. i would find it highly unattractive. (use of "would of" would have sent me running...)

there is a huge difference though between not knowing and just being a bit sloppy.

for the record, tosh courted me (across the cold distance of the atlantic ocean) with e-mails and

boy can that boy write. gotta love a lad who can write.

(i suppose my failure to ever use caps could be annoying.)

[mockney piers]

Playing fast and loose with your English, using colloquial, unorthodox and spoken English is fine on the forum, I'm pretty sure it should be unacceptable in an exam.

"Would of" irks because it's simply incorrect, but as someone hinted at earlier, breaking up your prose, no matter what it's content, into readable chunks, is paramount.

Sorry Tony.etc but most of your lengthier posts I simply skip, my eyes start hurting before I can tease apart the relevant content.

[AcedOut]

Should that have been "its content"!? ;)

[mockney piers]

Ha ha!! Touch?.

Nicely spaced and formatted though wasn't it?

[Michael Palaeologus]

My 1970s comprehensive edjaction never included grammer innit. To my regret.

What I know of split infinitives I learned from Star Trek.

[David Mc]

Like "here, here"?!

Edited to say this was a reponse to the last post on page 1 before I realised there was a page 2!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

There, there.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

I wonder how much of Tony from the Burbs arguments are never taken on board purely because his approach to layout and punctuation remain so... idiosynchratic

Yet it many years of contributing to other fora that Subject has rarely,if ever,been mentioned which is perplexing to say the least.Even in this thread I wrote:-

"People can't learn basic English Grammer which simply infuriates me!.........2

Edited 10 time(s). Last edit was today, 12:56pm by Tony.London Suburbs.

I've learned to minimalise "irony" on here though! I deliberately spelt "Grammar" incorrectly and on a thread entitled "Grammar, punctuation and syntax irritations" I "edited" 10 times ONE SENTENCE in 4 minutes,as a joke(like) and nothing,niet,null response:))

Sometimes you cannae win Son:))

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Can't we use Nominative,Accusative,Dative and Genetive Tenses like the good old days?

Pluperfect anyone?

[Ant]

I always notice when something is badly written, for whatever reason. It's a large part of my job so it has become automatic, but I think I'd notice mistakes whatever job I did. I'm just that sort of person. I try not to comment when people mess up as it rarely achieves anything positive.

Even so, when I see a misplaced apostrophe or similar it just... vexes me. It's instinctive.

(I was born after 1970.)

[Edited to change an it's to it has - just cos I notice stuff dun't mean I claim to always get it right myself. And again: and. Gah.]

[Moos]

I saw that one, Tony, but felt I don't know you well enough to point it out.

[James]

Incidentally I was born after 1970 too!

[AcedOut]

I was born after 1870 too.