British Humanist Association need support from parents of/and kids who want to study Humanism too.

[mockney piers]

?To do my duty to [god] and [to the queen]" was our version.

I'm surprised to see scouting movement in a country where Baden-Powell made his reputation fighting against you, weird.

As it goes he started it as a way of improving the constitution and readiness of a perceived sickly youth for the rigours of war, but after witnessing the carnage of the first world war he did a 180 a was a total pacifist, reinventing scouting, still within it's essentially paramilitary setup, to be an organisation for peace, understanding and cooperation between the youth of nations.

Good stuff, god or no god, queen or no queen.

dib dib dib

[Brendan]

You could argue that in a social context these sorts of ceremonies have existed for much longer than our current religions. Or even the previous ones and those before them etc.

[Moos]

Yeah, 'xackly. Paths to God, man.

[Brendan]

Or that they are far older than the concepts of "God" or "gods".

[mockney piers]

"Paths to God"

So you're saying that despite His apparent antipathy toward idol worship, He was actually encouraging anamism thence paganism for a good hundred centuries before revealing himself to a small backwater middle eastern tribe by way of a incendiary shrubbery?

[Moos]

Brendan - quite possibly. But I don't know whether people have been feeling the urge to be religious for more or less time than they've felt the urge for social ceremonies. Does anyone have any insights?

Mockers - with respect, I'll duck that one. It's a subject I feel deeply about, and since it looks as though your feelings are a bit more flippant perhaps it would be easier to feel our way to a friendly discussion in person rather than by pen?

[Brendan]

Incendiary shrubbery?

Oh now I get it.

And to think for all these years I assumed that the 3 major monotheistic religions were based on a holy man coming across a particularly unpleasant type of STD.

[Ted Max]

?To do my duty to [god] and [to the queen]" was our version.

I'm surprised to see scouting movement in a country where Kipling made his reputation fighting against you, weird.

As it goes he started it as a way of improving the constitution and readiness of a perceived sickly youth for the rigours of war, but after witnessing the carnage of the first world war he did a 180 a was a total pacifist, reinventing scouting, still within it's essentially paramilitary setup, to be an organisation for peace, understanding and cooperation between the youth of nations.

Good stuff, god or no god, queen or no queen.

dib dib dib

Do you mean Kipling, or Baden-Powell?

[lozzyloz]

I'm hardly an expert but I'd hazard a guess that the human race has been riddled with social ceremonies ever since we were able to think in abstract form. Probably largely based on superstition to begin with and a need to keep tribes cohesive but as the populace and travel/integration has increased so have other ideas like religion influenced these functions together with a global tendency to standardisation. I predict that in 25 years you'll be able to buy a DIY ceremony kit from the local newsagent.

I like many of the principles of Humanism. But also many of the principles enshrined in most other (sensible/rational) religions and movements but I'm not sure I want to be a full time member of any of them. I was a member of The Woodcraft Folk in my youth, though but I can't remember any god or queen stuff.

[Brendan]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ?To do my duty to and " was our version.

>

> I'm surprised to see scouting movement in a

> country where Kipling made his reputation fighting

> against you, weird.

Almost half of the white people in South Africa are actually English so not that surprising really.

[mockney piers]

Whoops Ted, you're quite right, will amend my post for clarity. Getting things mixed up in my head.

Moos, fair enough, I know I sound flippant but I do think about these things at a less shallow level than is apparent and would be more than happy to join you for a pint-based chat.

[Moos]

Sounds good! No doubt alcohol will help us along... with its able assistance at the end of the evening either you'll have baptised me into the Holy Church of the Mock-Bey, or I'll have called down a fatwa on yo' skanky ass.

[mockney piers]

No doubt ;)

[MelbourneGr]

I didn't know what Humanism was until I read this thread - and no, it's not ticking any of my boxes.

I just cant figure out if it's a social group or a cult :-S

[mockney piers]

Nowt wrong with humanism per se, but make it into a society (adre I say dogma?) and it suddenly becomes a bit unsettling doesn't it.

[PeckhamRose]

MelbourneGr, it's just a group and now a charity of talented people (I volunteer office work for them now and again) whose reason for being is to make sure that those of us who choose to live without faith or superstition can do so without discrimination from religious based rules and regulatations that pervade society. That's pretty much it.

[ruffers]

I'm still trying to get my head around or find an example where people are discriminated against on the grounds of having no faith. I can see discrimination against people not of a specific faith, but that also includes those of other faiths so isn't against 'no faith' specifically. If you see what I mean....

[Asset]

try reading the God Delusion, plenty of examples.

[Marmora Man]

When I go I go - but I don't need any sort of umbrella "humanist" ceremony

Ditto - but I've arranged to be cremated (and specified no religious ceremony) then asked for my ashes to be scattered, with again no ceremony, from a submarine on a Sunday (just to P*** off what's left of the Royal Navy's Submarine Service - or "The Trade" as Kipling referred to it)

[Fuschia]

We had a humanist celebrant for son's naming, and it was a lovely ceremony. Will be doing thesamw for our twins. Had al ong chat with the celebnrant and provided lots of info for her to add to the script, which she has given to us to review.

[MelbourneGr]

OK, I didn't think there could be any descrimination for not believing in something, especially with religion as there are so many of them. I can't see how it can interfere with a job interview.

From what I've read on here, the only difference I see between Atheism and Humanism is Humanism has better ceremonies. Where an Atheist would probably be cremated, a Humanist has a more lavish send off with bespoke scripts?

[Bellenden Belle]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nowt wrong with humanism per se, but make it into

> a society (adre I say dogma?) and it suddenly

> becomes a bit unsettling doesn't it.

I'm jumping into this debate a little late but personally I don't see what is so unsettling about people gathering together to focus on the wider questions of what it is to be human. I'm not a fan of religion but there is something to be said about actually giving oneself the space and time to focus on something other than the rat race we all live in. It's very easy to say "I live a good life, that's enough for me" but actually the opportunity to share thoughts, dilemmas, questions - to make sense of the world we live in -is something many of us don't do.

How do we focus? How are we inspired? How do we become better people? I wouldn't want to bring my kids up in a faith, but I do think a structure in which to discuss these questions is valuable. It sometimes feels that by abandoning the dogma of organised religion we may also have thrown the baby out with the bath water (Clearly I am not talking about the baby Jesus here.... that would be cruel).

[Brendan]

Bellenden Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

... people gathering together to focus on the wider

> questions of what it is to be human. I'm not a fan

> of religion but there is something to be said

> about actually giving oneself the space and time

> to focus on something other than the rat race we

> all live in. It's very easy to say "I live a good

> life, that's enough for me" but actually the

> opportunity to share thoughts, dilemmas, questions

> - to make sense of the world we live in -is

> something many of us don't do.

>

> How do we focus? How are we inspired? How do we

> become better people? ...

Pubs?

[PeckhamRose]

Tee Hee Brendan. Pubs indeed.

However, that is the point of the original posting. If kids have to study religions (and they should) then it is only fair they should "have" to have the opportunity of studying humanism, ie. the possibility of living a good life without the need of carrot-heaven or stick-hell to live by. Like what it would seem a lot of us do, here. With creationism and intelligent design being drummed into kids and American religious hot-houses pooling their interns into the White House, we have a lot to be worried about.

[MelbourneGr]

What more could kids learn in RE about Humanism than they could about Atheism which is already covered in great detail in the subject?