British Humanist Association need support from parents of/and kids who want to study Humanism too.

[PeckhamRose]

Hi everyone,

I wonder if there are any parents reading this who may be interested in the subject, and care enough to help if they can.

It's from British Humanist Association (those good folks who fight to make sure people of no faith have equal rights with those who do).

"Urgent: request for help from BHA members and supporters in legal action against QCA

Many members will know that the BHA is taking legal action against the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA) because of the QCA?s decision not to allow Humanism to be studied on the same basis as religions in the Religious Studies GCSE. You can read the BHA News item about this here:

http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/newsarticleview.asp?article=2480

We now need assistance from parents and young people who would be willing to be co-claimants or witnesses in support of the BHA?s application. No court appearances will be necessary as all evidence will be paper based, and lawyers are available to assist with drafting statements.

If you are a parent of an age where your child(ren) would begin studying for GCSEs in 2009/10 or any year after that until 2014/15 and would like your children to study Humanism, then we want to hear from you. We would also like to hear from any young people who would be studying for GCSEs in any year from 2009/10 to 2014/15 and would like to study Humanism.

This case is vital to the BHA and we urgently need your help! Please telephone Andrew Copson on 07534 248596 or by email on [email protected] if you can assist us.

Contact us

The British Humanist Association

1 Gower Street

London WC1E 6HD

Tel: 020 7079 3580

[email protected]"

Just kinda feels important and I hope you don't mind my posting it here. Best wishes from PeckhamRose

(Edited to get rid of unrelated BHA stuff)

[Marmora Man]

PR -= support the concept and consider myself to be a humanist, but my sons are now out of school.

Best of luck

[ruffers]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi everyone,

> I wonder if there are any parents reading this who

> may be interested in the subject, and care enough

> to help if they can.

> It's from British Humanist Association (those good

> folks who fight to make sure people of no faith

> have equal rights with those who do).

>

It's never occured to me that people of no faith suffer in this way, and I count myself as one of them. You've made me think if nothing else but can you give a couple of examples?

ta

[Mark]

How do we suffer? We have to listen to the speakers on Radio 4's Thought for the Day stating that if only we had listened to Jesus then everything would be ok.

Seriously though, the main "suffering" is because of the privileges given to religions in schools, marriages, law etc that are not fair to people who don't hold religious or superstitious beliefs. Have a look at the list of campaigns on the Humanist's website http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=340 it will show you some examples.

[PeckhamRose]

Hi

Yes, what they said!

Also today heard about how some female children who are having catholicism forced down their necks in one catholic school are not going to offered the antivirus injection to help prevent cervical cancer. I am sure that's the sort of issue the BHA will support (against, if you get what I mean).

Yes, and you can't join the scouts if you don't believe in God!

And Mark thanks you put it better than I could. I'd add (probably clumsily) that those who live without faith when in discussions with those religious folk seem always to have to explain how they can be "good" in their "godless" lives. I choose to say that I don't need the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell to know it is better to try and be good than bad.

I am planning on applying to train to be a Humanist Celebrant.

Anyone been to a humanist funeral service? To be frank, they're soooooooo much more positive and - celebratory!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

The worst funeral I ever went to was Humanist. It was my grandmother's and even during my extreme grief I was able to think it was pants and so badly conducted.

[mockney piers]

I've heard this a few times.

The thing with rites is they tend to fit better in a religious or superstitious context. The Catholics have been honing their skills for a long time and consequently pretty good at that whole malarkey.

Structure and familiarity help you to feel part of something bigger, and when I said the classic marriage rites, I may not have believed any of the religious side, but those words 'to love and to hold...til death do us part, Amen' felt very powerful and made the marriage itself feel more real.

I've been to a pagan wedding too and it may have been a lot of stuff and nonsense (no offence mum) led by a 'shaman/priestess' but it worked as theatre and ceremony.

I've already stated to my poor beloved that our kids get baptised over my dead body (trade off for getting married in a catholic church), but I don't really know what to replace it with; I'm certainly not going to get a humanist celebrant to do it, I'm figuring just a big piss up is the way forward.

[ruffers]

I went to a humanist naming ceremony recently and it was a bit poor to be honest, interesting point about the religions having had years to practice and agreed, despite belief issues the catholics do put on a good funeral ceremony.

To go back to Peckhamrose comments -

Well the school in Bury has said they don't want the injections on their premises, and this is "despite support for the injections from the Salford Diocese and the Church nationally" (Source Manchester Evening News) (I'm in Manchester today) so it's the view of a small group of governors rather than the Church from that information.

Scouts - interesting, didn't know that. I guess when I was there I just lied a bit!

On the third point I don't choose to say anything, why the need? Why "have to explain?"

[Michael Palaeologus]

"How do we suffer? We have to listen to the speakers on Radio 4's Thought for the Day stating that if only we had listened to Jesus then everything would be ok"

Well yes, although if it is Lionel Blue then you can replace "listened to Jesus" with "eaten chicken soup".

I agree with Lionel.

[kristymac1]

I went to the humanist funeral of one of my best friend's father a couple of years ago and it was beautifully done. I do think though that with any kind of funeral service (religious or humanist), the 'best' involve those people who really knew the person and so can contribute fully to the celebration of the person's life.

I've also been to one or two dire religious funeral services which displayed no warmth or familiarity with the person who passed away.

[mockney piers]

Now that you mention it I went to a catholic funeral where the priest basically said that as my mate Dan hadn't been to confession or received last rites, that the best he could hope for was purgatory. I must say it was pretty upsetting and I can't say as it served them much positive propaganda as regards my feelings toward that organisation.

Cunt

[PeckhamRose]

I've been to a few Humanist funerals and the point is that the celebrant gets to spend a lot of time with the family beforehand to construct a sort of "This was their life" story and write a tribute around it. A bit more vigorous than a vicar talking about a heaven the deceased never believed in. The training is very hard and I hope I am up to it. I was the only person who was up to speaking at my cousin's funeral and the celebrant was absolutely brilliant but the family gave an awful lot about my cousin so she was able to write a good script. Maybe other's poorer experiences above reflected where that was not the case. I hope she can be my mentor!

Another issue the BHA is fighting for, is a better representation of people's beliefs or otherwise on the census. The leadng question "What religion are you?" (or similar wording) on the last one meant people veered towards saying Christian and according to that apparently 70% of Brits are christian and we know that's wrong, so they're fighting for different wording to get a better picture. Which is reasonable.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm all for anything that diminishes religion's role in state affairs but if Catholics, Jews, Musilims etc want a religious wedding and funeral that's up to them.

When I go I go - but I don't need any sort of umbrella "humanist" ceremony - I definitely wouldn't want my family to drag me back into some religious funeral, but so long as religion is out of it that's plenty. I don't see why non-religious people need to define themselves as "Humanist. You just don't believe in... well you know the arguments

Come Christmas I won't be having a Humanist Christmas or even a non-Santa Christmas (what can I as a non-Santa believer define that as?) ... but I will enjoy the time off.

[Brendan]

Isn't replacing religion with another school of though that comes with its own pre-packaged philosophy and ideals all a bit pointless?

[SeanMacGabhann]

basically my point Brendan but you put it so much more succinctly

[Ted Max]

We definitely want Brooklyn to be Christened, we just don't know into what religion yet.

[mockney piers]

I have heard that humanist celebrants have a tendency to go a bit militant atheist, which as far as I'm concerned is every bit as bad as a dogmatic priest (see above). But, like that hellfire and brimstone chap who condemned my friend's soul, it may be down to the individual celebrant's sensibilities about how far to go with the dogma at a ceremony.

The chap at my wedding was actually a pretty good guy and went some way to meeting me half way when I asked if we could keep it light-hearted and happy and try to ease up on all that god stuff. We got away with no mass or eucharist, but he did keep proffering the book cover first in a demonstrative fashion as if somehow its presence would convert all the heathen scum from Britain (and indeed Ireland, no names mentioned....sean)

[mockney piers]

LOL, yes, a classic quote Ted.

[Brendan]

I do find Catholics in Britain and Ireland seem to be a lot more, well catholic than they are back in the old country. The guy who married us actually encouraged us to have the shortest, most light-hearted ceremony he could get away with.

[mockney piers]

Problem with the catholic church of Britain is that it has yet to find it's own character. It was once upon a time renowned for a certain unique sensibility, but following the dissolution then a couple of hundred years of repression, with a dose of grim Godliness in the 1640/50s that character was extinguished and it's more or less had to rely on the Irish and other catholic immigrant communities to fuel it's rebirth following the end of recusancy, and has yet to find it's own way again.

For the record the nasty soul burner was Italian.

[PeckhamRose]

I did think long and hard about joining the BHA. I agree with above points about the feeling that you're joining just another group and having to abide by its rules and ethos and itself becomes another religion, as it were. But it's really not about that, and my deciding point about joining was to basically feel I was contributing to a group of like minded free-thinkers who want to put pressure on government to make sure that people who do NOT live by any ThirdPartyGod rules have as much rights in the workplace or wherever as those who do. Things like the scout movement and Thought for the Day are small matters compared to the rights to, for example, be able to criticise religion without being punished for it (by God's representatives here on earth!) to be able to have the same rights in the workplace, and to ensure that state money is spent sensibly and not spent in a discriminatory fashion on those who believe in a God. Faith schools are morally wrong, to my mind.

So that's why I joined. But they don't tell me what to think. Nuh uh.

[mockney piers]

I went to cubs and scouts and I feel no more inclined to do my duty to god than I do to the queen frankly.

I can tie a mean sheepshank though.

[annaj]

I was in the brownies and guides (thrown out of guides mind you for not working hard enough to get my green trefoil even though I was a patrol leader. The shame.) and I wouldn't say it affected my feelings on God or the queen, although I do still try and help other people and keep the brownie guide law* I didn't learn anything as useful as knotting though, the only badges I remeber getting were country dancing, housekeeping and agility, so maybe we should address the inherent sexism of the scouting movement before we tackle God.

I think I would also agree with what has already been said about religious and humanist ceremonies. I went to a humanist wedding and although it was very personal to the couple and very apporpriate for them, it didn't feel entirely real (and of course it wasn't they had actually been married in a registry office the day before). We didn't want a religious marriage ceremony, so had a very moving and memorable civil ceremony which felt appropriately formal, but still personal. Aside from the legal bits that have to be included we had complete control over what was included and could have written the whole thing ourselves if we'd wanted to.

The whole question of baby naming ceremonies is a very modern dilema. I've never been to a humainst one, but know people who have and found them really naff. My sister and her husband recently had a "launch party" for their twins, with a very short speech and a cake, but no ceremony, which was nice, but maybe not formal enough. The other problem is what to call the equivalent of godparents if you're not doing the whole god thing (I've recently been asked to be one so was pondering this anyway) Non-god parents? Godless parents? Special adult friends..... Maybe not.

Not sure that ramble has added anything, but thought I'd share!

*the brownie guide law is to treated others as you would like to be treated yourself and do a good turn every day.

[Brendan]

I don?t remember anything about god (or anyone?s queen for that matter) in the Scouts. I remember making rafts, camping in the rain, sneaking smokes behind the scout hall, making really big fires, catching scorpions, being stung by scorpions (I don?t think these were officially sanctioned activities), football matches against other scout groups, fights against other scout groups, making kites, someone falling into a bee hive, a big fucking swarm of bees, being allowed to play with knives and matches and a strange obsession with Rudyard Kipling. I really don?t recall anything about god though except the bit where you said, ?To do my duty to my church and my country?.

[Moos]

We asked our dear and happily godless (sorry, god-free?) friend to be godmother to the Moosling; she accepted with grace and I believe wears her title with pride, although perhaps with a little irony. Our vicar also accepted her into the christening with grace and without any need for dishonesty or shystering. Compromising on technicalities while upholding principles and looking for the things that bring us together in belief rather than tear us apart is what makes situations like this work.

To put the other side of the story for religious ceremonies, two examples. Our wedding, conducted in Germany, was a blend of English and German language and our pastor, once she had been convinced that we had thought about what we wanted and why, was very understanding and flexible about making the service meaningful to us. We loved it and found it beautiful and the right balance for us between traditional and personal. A sadder example: a funeral I attended recently was conducted by a vicar who had taken the time to visit the dying man and spend time with his family speaking to them in terms that they related to (they are vaguely Christian but definitely cynical and not church goers) to help them make their goodbyes and mvoe on. The funeral itself (and this is the point of view of the widow) was comforting, moving and kind. I completely sympathise with those who've found religious ceremonies exclusive and judgemental - but they don't have to be that way.

That said, I also think it would be a huge step forward to construct beautiful and uplifting services for marriages, funerals and namings without religious connetations. One of the nicest things about traditional ceremonies is that they draw on experience and familiarity, and provide a sense on continuity at these important points in life. At weddings, you always see married couples in the pews smiling at one another during the vows. How lovely if a similar tradition could be established in people who don't want to involve religious aspects.