Do kids still earn pocket money? Cat care needed

[misi]

I put this post in the Family section too. We don't have kids. We have a cat. Do kids still do chores (like mow lawns - ha ha) for extra pocket money? Or is that very 20th century? I'm looking for someone to help with cat care when we're away (morning and evening visits - feeding/watering, cleaning out litter tray, playing with the cat a bit). We have friends locally that help, but they're often away too. There are professional services charging ?7-11 per 15min visit (who knows if they stay 15min?). I'd have thought this task would be perfect for a 10-15 year old and ideally I'd be paying less to. I live in SE22 near junction of Sylvester/Landells. I'd have to feel that anyone I give keys to is totally trustworthy, so I thought if I meet the parents, etc this would be more likely. Send me a message please if you have a kid that would be interested. Or I could envision maybe a retired lady (or gent) doing this too. Thanks so much.

[Sue]

Why would you think you should pay a young or retired person less than the going rate, when they would be giving exactly the same care to your cat?

And you say "Who knows if they stay 15 min?"

Well, if there is a cat flap and the cat isn't there when they arrive and doesn't come back whilst they are there, once they have changed the water, washed the food bowl, put out food and checked the litter tray, there isn't much else to do, is there? They can't groom or play with a cat who isn't there .....

[misi]

Hi Sue. Thanks for your unwelcome post. Seeing as you wrote it at 12:30 on a Sunday morning (well, late Saturday night) perhaps you should stay off the forum when you've been at the sherry bottle or finished the chardonnay bottle? Of what concern is my query to you? I've received many, many positive responses with offers of help. And I need to sort through them all. It is absolutely none of your business what I am willing/able to pay a non-professional and what he/she is willing to accept. (Would you pay a teenager to paint your house the same as a firm of decorators although everyone can hold a paint roller?) And our cat doesn't go out (which is her own choice), so any carer would find her in the house. You don't really merit an explanation, but there it is anyway. Enjoy.

[Sue]

I am sorry if you found my post unwelcome, but I stand by every word of it.

And no I didn't post it when I was drunk. What a charming suggestion.

My concern, as you put it, about your query is that I am retired, and I don't see why my age should merit my receiving less than the going rate for doing exactly the same job as somebody younger. So it absolutely is my business.

And why should somebody stay exactly 15 minutes? Sometimes litter in the tray may need completely replacing, sometimes may need little attention. Sometimes the cat may be in playful mood or be happy for a cuddle, sometimes not. Sometimes the carer may need to stay longer than 15 minutes, sometimes less.

To imply that somebody is somehow untrustworthy because they stay less than 15 minutes is unfair. You are paying for somebody to visit on a regular basis to do whatever is required on that visit. Where did this magic figure of 15 minutes come from?

I'm glad you have received "many, many positive responses." Personally, I would choose somebody who wanted to meet the cat in advance and get to know it before the first paid visit, and somebody who clearly loved cats, not whoever was willing to do it for the least money, but each to their own :(

[misi]

Sue, Sorry we can't agree on this question. I'll purchase services (in this instance for our cat) in any way I see fit. This may not be in accordance with your own views, but sadly life is full of disappointments. As you state that you're retired, I would imagine you're at an age in which you've learnt this unpleasant life lesson. Enjoy your retirement. Bye bye!

[DulwichFox]

Misi...

I am astounded at your attitude.

You are going on about not wanting to pay professional services and doubting their honesty.

You are seeking to exploit a young or elderly person by paying them less for the same service.

You have insulted a friend and neighbour of mine.

If I had a young child I would not allow them to work for someone with such attitude.

Cannot see anyone wanting to work for you.

I've been keeping a low key on the forum recently but just had to step in here on this one.

Who do you think you are. You ask for help then alienate everyone who reads your thread.

DulwichFox.

P.S. Do not Double Post. It is against the rules of the Forum.

[Peckhampam]

Oh dear,

But just to set the record straight, Dulwich Fox writes of Misi "then alienate everyone who reads your thread." I read her thread, she didn't alienate me. However Sue and Dulwich Fox alienated me with their rudeness and willingness to presume they know better than anyone else.

[Sue]

Deleted as I double posted when I edited the post.

The post that was here is below (but didn't have the last sentence).

[Sue]

Peckhampam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh dear,

> But just to set the record straight, Dulwich Fox

> writes of Misi "then alienate everyone who reads

> your thread." I read her thread, she didn't

> alienate me. However Sue and Dulwich Fox

> alienated me with their rudeness and willingness

> to presume they know better than anyone else.

xxxxxxx

I am retired.

I also occasionally care for cats locally, and am paid for doing so.

I therefore have a very clear interest in the content of Misi's original post. I can't see how that can be interpreted as "presuming to know better than anyone else."

Exactly how have I been ruder than Misi who assumes - and publicly posts - that a) I was drunk when I posted on here on Saturday night, purely because she does not like the content of my post and b) that because I am over 60 that therefore my services are worth less than somebody who is not?

I would suggest that the tone and content of her posts to me have been rather ruder than mine to her, but you are of course free to disagree.

I love cats. I wonder at the attitude of somebody who owns one but wants to get the cheapest possible care for it, exploiting others in the process, and assumes that somebody who questions that attitude must be drunk :(

Thanks, Dulwich Fox.

ETA: The content of misi's PMs to me have been equally delightful :(

[DulwichFox]

Peckhampam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh dear,

> But just to set the record straight, Dulwich Fox

> writes of Misi "then alienate everyone who reads

> your thread." I read her thread, she didn't

> alienate me. However Sue and Dulwich Fox

> alienated me with their rudeness and willingness

> to presume they know better than anyone else.

The thread is aimed primarily at someone seeking to earn a little 'Pocket Money'

The phrase 'Do kids still do chores (like mow lawns - ha ha)' in itself is alienating. IMHO.

There is nothing in my post suggesting any element of knowing better.

I just expressed a view on the contempt the orig. poster was showing the very person they were seeking to employ.

And you think I am being rude. I think not.

I treat All people with respect and dignity..

But I guess it is how you are brought up. ?

DulwichFox.

[misi]

Hello Sue and friend/neighbour DulwichFox,

Who could have foreseen my search for a local kid wanting to earn some pocket money by looking after my cat would cause such a ruffle of feathers?! I admire your concern about the exploitation of labour; in this case my sinful, and uber-capitalist desire to undercut the infamous cat sitters' union by paying a teenager less than ?7 to ?11 for 15 minutes of work.

(By the way, it takes more than one 'professional' cat sitter charging this amount to mean that this is the "going rate" which you feel I'm undermining... the market sets the going rate. And I'm part of the market. Oh, the national minimum wage for under 18's is ?3.72. Don't worry yourselves, I won't engage a retired/older person.)

As frustrating as it might be for you both, not one of the 20 or so people who volunteered their own or their children's services have chosen to renege on their offers. Other than shaking your heads in dismay, you two have no power over this situation... but obviously too much time on your hands.

Here's how to employ it:

If you would like to try to make a difference to those exploited by "evil bosses" everywhere, why not write to your MP and campaign against the UK's opt out of the EU Working Time Directive which limits work to 48 hours per week? Every employer I've worked for has asked me to sign a waiver so that I can legally work over 48 hours (unpaid overtime which London's economy relies on). It is common practice in professional environments, and I would imagine it's the same further up/down the career ladder. Or why don't you write to your MP about the abuse of Zero Hours Contracts which conveniently take people out the unemployment statistics, but pay few of them decently? Or perhaps you could campaign for supermarkets and restaurants with a presence in East Dulwich to pay their employees the London Living Wage of ?8.80? Or you can make sure everything you purchase, regardless of the cost, is ethically/sustainably sourced and/or is Fairtrade (and not just your bananas). And do make sure you don't buy almost anything manufactured in the Far East... or South Asia... or South America... or Africa. You'd be helping the bad guys exploit their workers and thus cause you sleepless nights.

You see, their is so plenty of labour exploitation happening in the UK and abroad. And plenty of worthy causes which would benefit from your anger, energy and zeal. And your spare time.

[Sue]

How extremely patronising.

And what a lot of assumptions you are making about me and my "spare time".

A bit like your assumption that I was drunk when I posted a perfectly coherent post on this forum. An assumption that you apparently made purely because it happened to be late on Saturday night.

Yes, there is plenty of exploitation.

Does that make yours better?

You said above "I'll purchase services (in this instance for our cat) in any way I see fit".

It was because employers in this country were doing exactly that that it was necessary to bring in discrimination legislation - including relating to age.

[Jeremy]

OP sounds fine to me. Seems quite reasonable that a local person with time on their hands and who likes animals might be happy to pop round for 15 mins for a fiver (or whatever) a time.

Exploitation? How about kids mowing neighbours lawns? Is that exploitation because they're cheaper than a professional gardener? Are paper-rounds exploitation? It's an absurd accusation.

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OP sounds fine to me. Seems quite reasonable that

> a local person with time on their hands and who

> likes animals might be happy to pop round for 15

> mins for a fiver (or whatever) a time.

>

> Exploitation? How about kids mowing neighbours

> lawns? Is that exploitation because they're

> cheaper than a professional gardener? Are

> paper-rounds exploitation? It's an absurd

> accusation.

xxxxxx

Jeremy, my particular issue - as I thought I had made clear - is the OP's assumption that the time of somebody retired is somehow worth less than the time of somebody who isn't.

[Jeremy]

Nothing to do with people's time being "worth" less or more. It's about people within a community entering a mutually beneficial arrangement... the OP gets their cat fed, a local kid (or possibly adult) gets a little bit of money in return and spends a few minutes playing with a cute cat.

And going back to the exploitation thing... how much do you think the pet-sitter takes home after the agency have taken their cut, and they've paid their tax?

[DulwichFox]

English Translation from German:-

Black or white ? in struggle united!

We know only one race,

we recognize only one enemy ?

the exploiting class.

John Heartfield 1931.

John Heartfield (born Helmut Herzfeld; 19 June 1891 ? 26 April 1968)

Exploitation comes in all forms.. Exploitation of The Young, The Old, The Sick,

The Misinformed, The Vunerable, The Trusting.

But to Exploit a Child Intentionally... ?? as the OP suggested. and then think that's ok.

Smile as you kill. Eh.

P.S. We don't send boys up chimneys any more.

DF.

[Jeremy]

So foxy, are you also opposed to morning paper rounds (there's no minimum wage for children)? How about a child washing their neighbour's car (for less than the guys at Sainsburys would charge)? Would you also consider these examples to be exploitation?

[DulwichFox]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So foxy, are you also opposed to morning paper

> rounds (there's no minimum wage for children)? How

> about a child washing their neighbour's car (for

> less than the guys at Sainsburys would charge)?

> Would you also consider these examples to be

> exploitation?

Look, I don't want to get too embroiled in a long debate. Life is too short.

A child negotiating a price to do a task is different from someone wanting a child to do a task

because they can pay them less.

A child negotiating a price to do a task is enterprise.

A person wanting a child to do a task because they can pay them less, is exploitation.

It's simple. If I could say it in single syllable words, I would.

DF.

[MelonSmasher]

East Dulwich has its share of pretentious people like Sue, way too much to say for themselves. If you don't make a constructive contribution to OPs thread, why even reply?

[Jeremy]

FWIW I don't think Sue or Foxy are pretentious. Far from it. I just don't agree with them at all on this point...

[MelonSmasher]

Jeremy- I have nothing against Fox. Children are taught if you have nothing good to say then don't say it, why Sue failed to understand that is beyond me. Having not met Sue, I'll even apologize for calling her pretentious, her post certainly was though.

[Alan Medic]

I'm confused why kids mowing lawns merits a laugh.

[DulwichFox]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm confused why kids mowing lawns merits a laugh.

I think it was meant as 'Kids mowing Lawns' Yer. as if.

Foxy

[steveo]

Jeremy: How do you know that the cat is cute?

[Sue]

MelonSmasher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy- I have nothing against Fox. Children are

> taught if you have nothing good to say then don't

> say it, why Sue failed to understand that is

> beyond me. Having not met Sue, I'll even apologize

> for calling her pretentious, her post certainly

> was though.

xxxxxx

Please explain to me exactly why anything I have said is pretentious, thanks.

You say "If you have nothing good to say then don't say it"? Why are you not addressing this to Misi, given her second post on here and her first in response to me?

I have every right to state my viewpoint on here when somebody says they will pay less to certain groups of people - including me :))

"Send me a message please if you have a kid that would be interested. Or I could envision maybe a retired lady (or gent) doing this too."

Great. I'm retired, so I'm to be paid the same as a "kid".