a polemic (changing pubs)

[whome?]

Dear all,

What is going on? Can somebody please tell me?

I went to the Magdala today hoping to see Chelsea-Utd, only to find that it isn't the Magdala anymore, but instead it's the MagNOLIA. There aren't any TVs there now, and they do food - ostentatiously, like that's the only reason anyone goes to pubs. I had to go to the cpt.

Now, I hate chavs as much as the next person. I mean hate them. But I'm beginning to yearn for a middle ground. What was wrong with the old Mag? Normal people, religious name but that's OK... why turn it into yet another place where we can all be smug and eat our modern British spring rolls for a fiver? I'll give it credit, it's better looking than some of the refitted "Pub - Dining Rooms" you see about. Take the Duke, which used to be Page Two in the good old days. But do we really need another place like this?

I think we're witnessing the emasuclation of the pub here. I appeal to all like-minded individuals to boycott the organic butcher's, avoid the effete ponce-holes of Lordship Lane, and move to Nunhead. East Dulwich is dead.

A concerned citizen.

[JesusCappuccino]

.

[Marmora Man]

I sympathise - I liked the old "drinkers pubs" - whose main role was to dish out good beer in good company.

However, I'd hazard that most pubs are just following the market. Few pubs can turn over enough revenue on beer / drink alone. They're not being "trendy" as such - merely commercially savvy. I can recall the Herne before its makeover two years or so back. It was possibly pretty close to the sort of pub you yearn for - on an average early evening there'd be 5 men in dusty working clothes, smoking and chatting with copies of the Mirror, Sun and whatever is the equivalent of Sporting Life.

It was quite friendly, somewhat scruffy, the beer was OK but there was no food to speak of except crisps and pork scratchings. The margin on its bar sales probably didn't even cover the barman's wages. It was very similar to many of the London pubs that I remember from the 70's - but it was never going to survive in that incarnation - they had to change or close.

I think current reports have up to 5 pubs a week are closing across the country - because there aren't enough nostalgia buffs who wish to just drink in a drinkers pub.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I love the way someone has ignored several threads about the pub ("no-one told me it had changed!!!!!!!") and yet manages to insult "chavs" AND drag in the organic butchers into his/her argument on their first ever post.

Which like-minded people are you after whome? I was up for a good polemic as well.. I'll just have to wait

[Michael Palaeologus]

I walked through The Magnolia this afternoon. The Landlady was very friendly and encouraged me to have a look around. She mentioned that the "football had gone" - not a problem for me, if I want to watch TV, I stay at home.

My thoughts - generally a nice refurb, not sure about the wallpaper on the bar. Having had Sunday lunch at the Bishop with three Forumites of this Parish at ?11 for a roast, I couldnt help noticing that The Mags was charging ?12.95 - odd given its out-of-central ED location, you would have thought that a more competitative pricing structure would have been sensible.

Shame about the lack of the famous pies and Sunday quiz - the baby wet out with the bath water there.

[AllforNun]

Page2 was er ...well....erm....not good

The Duke is more than fine, a very different feel and certainly not trying to hard. More than enough booze to get you twatted and good food to boot. Pretentious it ain't which is more to the point - very Nunhead indeed.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm not passing up an opportunity to agree with AFN either..

[????]

You don't like chavs or the Bourgoisee(sp)...I think you may have a problem....

Sean...I hate to digress, but you are going into "You're not from round here" mode a bit....so what if it's his first post. It's a crap one but wether it's first or 1,000 is irrelevat surely?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Depends on what the previous 999 posts were I would say. Call me old-fashioned but the first time I introduce myself to ANYONE I put on slightly more manners than usual. Nothing to do where anyone is from..

Posting on a forum suggests you have at least glanced AT the forum no? And the Mag has been one of the more discussed places of late? I'm just sayin....

[????]

Yeah, but that's your way, cats and skins etc....some of us like to appear as the devil and then chill (a bit)>:D

[SeanMacGabhann]

touch?

Oh no wait - you mean you HAVE chilled a bit???? sheeeshh....

whome? - sorry if I came on overly strong there. I actually agree with the point about missing old-skool pubs and that. I just disagree with boycotting organic butchers and pubs that don't show football. Marmora Man is probably on the money. If those places were more financially viable they wouldn't be shutting. Hell, buying a license to show Sky/Setanta in a place that size is more than most of the staff get paid in a year so you can see what the problem is.

That leaves organic butchers and pubs that don't show football. And what's really wrong with them?

[KalamityKel]

::o I didnt know butchers showed the footie! Certainly something to remember for the future!

Whome... I'm curious as to your definition of a "chav" care to clarify?

[AllforNun]

What organic butchers ?

[AllforNun]

Actually Sean if you could refrain from agreeing with me, it undermines my role as AFN by shifting me into a gentrified arena where i can have no critical weight. It also means that i may wake up to find myself antagonised by NewCross4ever, doomed to spend my mornings staring out of my small window waiting for my 1 hour of yard exercise.

[jumpinjackflash]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ::o I didnt know butchers showed the footie!

> Certainly something to remember for the future!

>

> Whome... I'm curious as to your definition of a

> "chav" care to clarify?

Yes, I'd actually be interested to know what defines a 'chav'. Chavs come up quite a bit on this forum - some people take offence, some don't. Here's what springs to my mind when I think of 'chav':

MEN

Kappa tracksuit

White Reebok Classic trainers

Baseball cap

Burberry overload

Rings with your initials on

Stone Island cardigans

WOMEN

Elizabeth Duke from Argos jewellery

Velour tracksuits on girls

White puffa jackets

Gelled back hair/scrunched hair

Foundation three shades darker than actual skin tone (that does not blend in to neck)

[phillyboy]

Doesn't The Castle on Crystal Palace Road have a huge screen. I went there for a quick beer when I first moved to ED - people were very friendly.

[Brendan]

There is a moral to this story. Go to the Castle or the CPT if you just fancy a no nonsense drink. They need our business anyway.

[pk]

jumpinjackflash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KalamityKel Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ::o I didnt know butchers showed the footie!

> > Certainly something to remember for the future!

> >

> > Whome... I'm curious as to your definition of a

> > "chav" care to clarify?

>

> Yes, I'd actually be interested to know what

> defines a 'chav'. Chavs come up quite a bit on

> this forum - some people take offence, some don't.

> Here's what springs to my mind when I think of

> 'chav':

>

> MEN

> Kappa tracksuit

> White Reebok Classic trainers

> Baseball cap

> Burberry overload

> Rings with your initials on

> Stone Island cardigans

>

> WOMEN

> Elizabeth Duke from Argos jewellery

> Velour tracksuits on girls

> White puffa jackets

> Gelled back hair/scrunched hair

> Foundation three shades darker than actual skin

> tone (that does not blend in to neck)

so you define 'chavs' by what they wear?

[jumpinjackflash]

No, it's what springs to my mind. I don't know if there is a definition of the term 'chav'.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's an old debate that comes around and around - go for it. But I suspect this will be lounge-bound unless it gets back on topic and East Dulwich specific...

[jumpinjackflash]

yep probably right. Back to topic. They show all the big footie games/boxing bouts at the Hamlets bar at Dulwich Hamlet FC and The Vale (I think).

[david_carnell]

Am I the only one who thinks that by adopting the nom de plume "whome?" that the O is in fact an already registered forumite with a deesire for further anonymity?

And a retort from the OP wouldn't go amiss either.

As a supporter of a football team who don' get any tv coverage any more I can honestly say that I now tend to avoid pubs showing it. I go to a pub for a drink and a chat and this often proves difficult with a big screen tv and cheering fans. The nostalgia the OP is after also seems to be a pretty narrow timespan. Footall in pubs has only existed since the Premier League arrived in '92 and yet within 15 years the type of pub he/she wants no longer exists!?

And to echo AFN and SeanMcG, the old Page2 was, erm, dreadful. The new Duke is marvellous. 'Nuff said.

[smokiewoodlands]

hi, I'm reasonably new on here & will be taking over the management of The Duke on Weds & I really do need to make it much busier than it is just now.

The situation with football in pubs these days is thus- Sky/Setanta charge about ?2k per year to supply their products to bars so none of the really small/ medium sized venues will take it as there's also extra rates incurred to boot.

The Duke dinning room (& cocktail bar)is dedicated to providing proper old fashioned gourmet cuisine at very reasonable prices & we won't be showing any football unless the owners have a change of heart but for specific sporting events in the future ie the london olympics, world cup football & the euros, or any big matches (all on terrestrial tv)we will def be showing them in the front of the venue only, I will hopefully encourage the proprietors to buy a decent sized screen for cinema nights, private hires etc

yours sincerely Smokie W

[SeanMacGabhann]

back up back up back up!

Has Nick "moved on" then? No refelection on yourself Smokie but that's a shame as I thought he was a good guy and he really looked after us the night we had the drinks there. But business is business I guess. best of luck to you too and it gives me an excuse to pop down and check out the new management!

[smokiewoodlands]

Nick's going to be moving on very soon, but I'm more of a sales driven guy & need to connect with the area & the people that live there, I need to know what people want from their local (hopefully we can attract from outside the area too?)

I look forward to meeting with you, my name is David by the way