Who does it?

[benjaminty]

Hi All,

A contentious issue and not sure how many cyclists will admit to it. I rode to work today for first time in about a year... and I'm still blown away by how many cyclists jump lights. Anyone do it?

Sadly as if to add any weight to it (as if I needed to) a cyclist has been killed this morning outside my office by Southwark bridge (although don't think any lights were jumped). Very sad. It's happened a few times at this junction in the last couple of years and deepest sympathies to family - hope it's not anyone on the forum.

I can't believe for one minute anyone would jump the lights at this junction... think it was down to a 40 tonner truck and lack of visibility.

Reading this again .. I doubt anyone will respond.

[SeanMacGabhann]

me no cycle - but as I walked to Blackfriars this morning, at every crossing on Blackfriars Rd at least one cyclist broke the lights.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

me no cycle - but as I walked to Blackfriars this morning, at every crossing on Blackfriars Rd at

least one cyclist broke the lights.

me no work there anymore.

Are the "Old" and "New" King Lud Pubs still there?

What is Fleet Street like without the Papers?

Do "The Sun" still operate out of Bouverie Street?

Are "The White Swan" and "The Witness Box" still going in Tudor Street,off Bouverie Street?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Are the "Old" and "New" King Lud Pubs still there?

I haven't seen those so can't comment

What is Fleet Street like without the Papers?

like any clonetown- chains of mobile phones and coffee shops. Riveting it ain't

Do "The Sun" still operate out of Bouverie Street?

don't think so

Are "The White Swan" and "The Witness Box" still going in Tudor Street,off Bouverie Street?

Witness Box sure is but I haven't seen the White Swan at all so suspect that is now an office

[SteveT]

At cyclists own risk if they jump the lights, if they collide with anything they come off worst, wotch ya gonna do.

[Jeremy]

They could hit a pedestrian.

They could force a car to suddenly brake, and cause a collision.

[Marmora Man]

I cycle regularly into London crossing Blackfriars Bridge after negotiating Elephant & Castle.

My own approach to red lights varies. The absolutism of Benjaminty is difficult to observe.

I will always stop at red lights at major junctions - for my own safety, tho' I do see many terrorist cyclists weaving in / out of traffic at even these junctions. I may set off a few seconds before they turn green, if I'm convinced the cross traffic has ceased, as this is safer allowing me to get up to a reasonable speed and take a place on the road without being run over by cars / buses.

On pedestrian crossing I will stop if the crossing is in use / about to be in use, but if it's clear I'll cross the red light. Reason - momentum, if I stop at every red light where there is absolutely no purpose for the red light I'll lose momentum, speed and arrive home / work later - I tried it a few times over two weeks. Observing absolutely every red light added about 7 minutes to my journey time - or about 20%.

[SteveT]

Go for it M.Man as an ex cyclist I agree with your post. Momentum is all.

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Guilty pleasure of mine is beeping my horn at them ( no pun ) as they run red lights and watch them wobble, it's bound to cause a crash soon but hey ho stop breaking da law

[cdonline]

I have skipped the lights, but do it rarely, as I'm too scared of getting run over. And stopping only puts a few minutes on your journey.

One problem I am aware of, is that I do tend to daydream and maybe not keeping my wits about me. I've found myself going past lights, thinking were those lights were really green.

I do get a bit disppointed by some cyclists who take liberties. Was walking back home from work yesterday, was crossing the road that was green for pedestrians and had to stop as a cyclist was oblivious to me or the light and just cut straight in front of me.

Cyclists are putting themselves at risk and I think part of it is the adrenalin that get from riding and the feeling you want to continue riding without stopping.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but there are many car drivers who don't give a hoot about others and their safety, happily junping the lights or doing something stupid and then complaining about being caught. Anyway, their bigger than us.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Happily handbags were invented for swiping at cyclists who run the lights at pedestrian crossings.

[Sandperson]

I'm with MM. It depends on the light. I have ridden the same route for about 2 years and I know where I can risk it and I know where I can't.

[blinder999]

We Brits have a very hypocritical attitude to obeying the rules - we are extremely quick to bang on about other people's infractions, without really examining our own behaviour. A good example is pedestrians' attitude to crossing the road - there I am trying to teach my son to cross when the green man shows, when people all around us are striding into the road with barely a look. It's no wonder that in this environment people grow up to be incapable of obeying rules in the absence of strict enforcement.

In some countries it's unacceptable to cross against a red man, or in the absence of a crossing. But here, most people laugh at the notion they should obey these rules - and I can guarantee, if they got on a bicycle, they would be ignoring the red lights en masse - it's just the way British society shapes us. If a rule inconveniences us, we ignore it, unless it is enforced. Laughing in the face of the rules is all very well, but it's very hypocritical to castigate cyclists for joining in.

[lozzyloz]

Not all cyclists jump lights blindly. Most of the time jumping lights actually makes cyclists more visible to other vehicles rather than being hidden behind a truck or bus.

I jump pedestrian crossing lights if there are no pedestrians crossing and it's not at a junction.

I jump junction red lights to get a head start on traffic going in my direction and to be visible, but only if I can see the opposing lights going red and no traffic crossing.

On bigger junctions eg Camberwell Green I might cross half way when one side is red for traffic turning right.

I've never been close to being run over except when going through a green light legally and some tw@t decides to turn right across me and miss by inches.

[benjaminty]

mostly agree Blinder. But don't think I'm being hypocritical (I would say that wouldn't I). My concern is that cyclists.. and I'm not saying any who have responded here, but almost take this as thrill a seeking activity. Is that a fair judgement? It just seems crazy some of the stuff I see. I saw a guy jump the lights in Camberwell this morning at the junction with cold harbour lane and just fly out and then look. Is he looking just for the sake of it? What could he do about a speeding car? Not much...

MM - I understand all that you've said and some of your points. Have you had any close shaves?

I want to talk about those pedestrains now that cross roads without looking... especially those who push a pram into the road before endangering themselves. But I'll leave that for another day.

[blinder999]

lozzyloz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not all cyclists jump lights blindly.

the problem is, so many other road users despise you - and therefore all other cyclists - for not obeying the rules, leading to some very aggressive and dangerous behaviour from people driving powerful heavy machines.

[Marmora Man]

MM - I understand all that you've said and some of your points. Have you had any close shaves?

On pedestrian crossing I will stop if the crossing is in use / about to be in use, but if it's clear I'll cross the red light.

No close shaves at lights - it's the Elephant & Castle roundabout that can get fun - with buses, lorries and cars edging from one lane into anoter without looking for a cyclist on their wing. I alway set off before lights turn green at E&C to get a head start and place myself clearly in their eyeline if I can.

ON pedestrian crossings - I give way if they are in / about to be in use. Otherwise I cross the red light. But then as a pedestrian I often cross the road at a pedestrian crossing when the green man is not lit.

[lozzyloz]

I'm not neccesarily condoning the practice, just being honest about what I do. Regardless, aggressive and dangerous behaviour doesn't make a car driver any better than a cyclist. Many more car drivers drive recklessly, break the law by speeding, jumping lights, undertaking, slipping into bus lanes and stopping in the green box etc. Doesn't give me the right to knock off their wing mirrors.

I wouldn't consider myself as experienced as some cyclists on here, but I have found in my experience that if you cycle more assertively it's far safer. I was hit recently on Gallery Road by a car that tried to overtake and then realised there wasn't enough space. Had I been further out they wouldn't have attempted the manoeuvre. Needless to say they didn't stop.

[standswithfist]

I cycled to work regularly for a year until i got knocked off round the back of London Bridge by a car on a cycle path.

I had just started cycling when i jumped the lights on Bishopsgate by Leadenhall Street on my way towards London Bridge. I had never seen the cycle police before and this guy pulled me over by Monument (i though he was just a cyclist getting fresh so didn't take it seriously until he flashed his badge at me!), he gave me a strict lecture on why I should not jump red lights. To be honest I hadn't really thought about it - I just wanted to get to and from work quicker than public transport. But I will be forever grateful for being pulled over as I never then jumped a red light again.

[mattham]

tough one this. As I rule I stop for lights. I always stop for pedestrian lights, or pedestrians anywhere, as I believe the larger vehicle should always yield to the smaller...but there are times in town when you just wouldn't get anywhere if you stopped for all the lights. At those times I skip them if it seems safe to do so. I'm not saying that's right, but there's got to be some incentive for cyclists, right?

[CamberwellOz]

I'm with MM. I don't jump lights unless it's a pedestrian crossing with no one crossing. Hmm thinking about it, I also jump the lights at T junctions. When I am at the top part of the T going forwand. (I think this makes sense... to me at least)

I used to be a lot more wreckless but then I had a baby and realised that saving five minutes isn't worth not watching my little one grow up.

[Horsebox]

I think we spoke about this before, ben, when you were considering cycling to work. (Did we?) I am pretty much in agreement with MM here. I'll always stop at busy junctions and ped crossings, certainly when they are about to be used, but if empty and/or clear then i will take advantage of this and coast through. What makes me chuckle is the number of cyclists that deem it their right to ignore EVERY red light or crossing. As i tend to ride a lot faster than many (whilst maintaining complete control and having an excellent sense of what is going on around me, i must stress) i always catch them up, pass them and then watch them jump the next set of lights that i stop at. I laugh too in the face of angry drivers that won't yield a half metre or so to let me pass them, saving a precious few seconds on their journey, only for me to whizz by shortly after as they sit in traffic. (Sorry about any errors on this post but am posting from my phone.)

[bon3yard]

I cycle regularly and always stop at the lights and it pisses me off royally when I see these cretins not adhering to the rules of the road, it simply adds to the negative stereotype of cyclists that many motorists now have. Grrrr.........

[ruffers]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > On pedestrian crossing I will stop if the crossing

> is in use / about to be in use, but if it's clear

> I'll cross the red light. Reason - momentum, if I

> stop at every red light where there is absolutely

> no purpose for the red light I'll lose momentum,

> speed and arrive home / work later - I tried it a

> few times over two weeks. Observing absolutely

> every red light added about 7 minutes to my

> journey time - or about 20%.

Can I do this in the car then. Reason? Green efficiency. Stopping the car and starting again uses a lot more fuel than just carrying on... :)

[lozzyloz]

Come along to Critical Mass on 26 Sept