No prebook appointments at DMC until end of March

[Earl Aelfheah]

Fundamentally, they have taken on far too many patients (and continue to do so).

[Monkey]

They have far too may patients and not enough doctors. i finally moved when, having had lots of problems making an appointment, i visited the surgery to find a pretty quiet waiting room with only 1 or 2 gps working. Greed, greed, greed.

[klove]

Was trying to find an email address of the DMC practice manager online and came across this article, it's a few years old but not much has changed..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063458/Family-doctors-firm-raking-1-8m-YEAR--patients-say-surgery-appalling.html

[Sue]

Very sorry to hear of people having to wait so long for test results, especially for a child.

I had blood tests recently and received a letter from DMC asking me to phone for a telephone appointment to discuss the results, although it was not urgent.

I put the letter to one side and didn't get round to phoning them, so then they phoned me to make the appointment, which I thought was excellent, considering it was not urgent and I would have got round to it eventually.

I subsequently had a helpful and constructive phone conversation with a GP about the results.

Clearly things are far from good at DMC in some respects, but credit where it's due too.

[BackinSE22]

Surely someone who works at the surgery, or even be responsible for, must read this forum? So why do they never defend themselves or apologise? Shocking behaviour all round - it makes me really cross!

[kristen]

My experience of DMC is that it's dreadful.

I don't know how the surgery works but I wonder why most of the GPs seem so disinterested, unhelpful, bordering on the neglectful. There's no chance of building a relationship or understanding for patients as the appointment system works against seeing the same GP. I understand why big surgeries do this (gets people seen quickly). But think it's counter productive especially if you're supporting people with long term conditions.

Most of the GPs I've seen there don't have a clue & I've given up expecting anything from them - I don't see them for medical advice/opinion anymore just for checking in on repeat prescriptions medication - or a referral.

I know mistakes happen in a busy surgery but in my case they've just been endless - for example it took a year to get referred for a possibly cancerous lump - I brought this up a number of times in person during appointments throughout this time. I have a long term condition no support in managing symptoms offered (except standard issue anti-depressants) Every referral I've had to push for/chase up/chase up again etc etc - which when you're ill is difficult. Not forgetting the lost letters, muddled repeat prescriptions requests & inability of any doctor there to read and follow up on a consultants recommendations.

& to have the pleasure of all this you have to go through some kind of hunger games trial to get an appointment - it's maddening.

I know I'm just repeating what's been said before BUT - I don't know what happens if you are old, frail, vulnerable & have to deal with all this - who follows things up for them or chases referrals - or are they just sitting unread in inboxes of doctors who have left etc.

& it's really easy to see all these complaints as just words on a page - but they're not. They're pain, misery, frustration exacerbated or caused by people who are supposed to help & support. When you have to go through this - when you're sick/tired/despairing it's awful. DMC make being sick/ill a nightmare for some people.

& as far as I can see they don't appear to care - or worry about the complaints - & I think this means that things are just going to get either continue or get worse.

[Sue]

kristen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know how the surgery works but I wonder

> why most of the GPs seem so disinterested,

> unhelpful, bordering on the neglectful. ......

> Most of the GPs I've seen there don't have a clue

> & I've given up expecting anything from them - I

> don't see them for medical advice/opinion anymore

> just for checking in on repeat prescriptions

> medication - or a referral.

>

xxxxxxxx

My own experience of all the GPs at DMC has been that they have been competent, interested and extremely helpful, apart from one locum I saw years ago.

And in the past, if I wanted to see a particular GP, I just asked. I haven't done recently, so I don't know whether that's still possible.

I'm obviously not suggesting that you didn't have poor experiences, kristen, but I must say I'm very surprised and disappointed :(

I do think the admin problems are not confined to DMC though. They seem to be a result of general NHS changes, though I'm not sure what. My daughter has had dreadful problems with her GP in Oxford, both for herself and for one of my granddaughters, for example with very delayed hospital referrals which just seemed to be sitting around the surgery for weeks.

[Callie]

sbain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wonder if The Lanes have almost had an adverse

> effect on the surgery. In that lots of women who

> are planning to have children register with them.

> This leads to them having a lot of young families

> on their books, patients who by and large use a

> docor a LOT more than your average patient. Which

> in turn leads to problems getting appointments

> etc.

Not sure what you mean by 'The Lanes'?? I don't think

either that the appointment's are in short supply because they are

all swallowed up by mass producing women of ED lol

[Jeremy]

The Lanes is a midwifery practice, in demand because they do home visits. That, coupled with the fact that surgeries give priority to babies, would quite possibly explain some of the added load on the surgery.

[Callie]

Yes all surgeries give priority to babies I should imagine, & there are quite a few surgeries in the area but none seem to have as many problems with appointments as DMC. Still not sure what the midwives doing home visits has got to do with anyone not being able to get an appointment with the GP.

[Jeremy]

Was just explaining sbain's point... that this midwifery practice is especially popular, and are only available via DMC. Therefore DMC may have an especially high number of mothers/babies.

It's just a theory, you don't have to agree.

[binary_star]

Absolutely dire service.

My intention was to move to The Gardens but after perking up post illness I never bothered. Can guarantee that will bite me in the arse when I get ill.

As far as I can see, this surgery suits anyone who is unemployed, retired or otherwise able or willing to queue outside for 30mins-1hr on the off chance of getting an appointment.

Meanwhile those of us in full time employment can forget it...

[simonethebeaver]

Forest Hill Road Practice also has a popular midwifery practice attached, and while FHR also has its issues, like many busy London practices, it's nothing like the descriptions of DMC. Also, if the midwives work, as I believe they do, in a similar way, they take on about 210 deliveries a year maximum - a drop in the ocean of the thousands that will be registered to the practice.

[kristen]

- in response to Sue -

In theory it's possible to see the same GP. But the appointment system doesn't support this.

This has meant I have the choice of either waiting 3 to 4 weeks (or longer) to try to get some consistency of care or taking pot luck on the day I manage to get through (via phone or going ot surgery) to book.

Also not sure really how to take the statement

"I'm obviously not suggesting that you didn't have poor experiences, kristen, but I must say I'm very surprised and disappointed"

Did you miss the comments on here - & on the NHS board? I'm not sure why you would find my experience very surprising. Also if you're very surprised I think that is saying (indirectly) that you're questioning what I'm saying (although it's late & I might be reading too much into this)

[Sue]

kristen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> - in response to Sue -

>

> In theory it's possible to see the same GP. But

> the appointment system doesn't support this.

> This has meant I have the choice of either waiting

> 3 to 4 weeks (or longer) to try to get some

> consistency of care or taking pot luck on the day

> I manage to get through (via phone or going ot

> surgery) to book.

xxxxxxxx

Yes, that makes sense.

xxxxxxxxx

>

> Also not sure really how to take the statement

>

> "I'm obviously not suggesting that you didn't have

> poor experiences, kristen, but I must say I'm very

> surprised and disappointed"

>

> Did you miss the comments on here - & on the NHS

> board? I'm not sure why you would find my

> experience very surprising. Also if you're very

> surprised I think that is saying (indirectly) that

> you're questioning what I'm saying (although it's

> late & I might be reading too much into this)

xxxxxxxxxxx

No, I wasn't at all questioning what you were saying, far from it!

That was why I specifically said "I'm obviously not suggesting that you didn't have

poor experiences, kristen" !!!

I couldn't possibly question somebody else's experiences, how could I?

Just, they differed from my own, and I was under the impression that the problems at DMC were not with the GPs per se, but from what you say I can't have read the thread properly, and I probably mixed it up with one of the other DMC threads, so if so sorry :(

[Ruskin]

Here's a post of mine from a few days ago re the surgery appointment app:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,1281301,1281301#msg-1281301

[ednewmy]

For the last year or so I've been seeing the same GP at DMC, and she's great - sympathetic, understanding, and she actually LISTENS. She's also not been too reluctant to run tests or make referrals, as others have been in the past. It's for this reason I'm really hesitant to change surgeries and risk going back to the same old "stop complaining" attitude of so many GPs I've seen in the past, some of whom have become almost combative when I've simply run an idea past them searching for answers as to what's causing symptom x or y.

It's when I ring up and am told I can't see her for a month (or more) where I start having major issues with DMC. They need to stop taking on any more patients starting immediately, then put in place a proper appointment management system. Sure, it must be hard work managing a busy London surgery, but others do it, so why can't DMC.

[Sue]

Don't know whether this is an appropriate thread to put this, but I've just received an email from DMC about a Patient Participation Group whose next meeting is at 6pm this Wednesday (12 March), and attaching this newsletter (sorry for the formating, I've copied and pasted from a pdf):

DMC Crystal Palace Road PPG e-news

1

The Patient Participation Group

met at DMC on December 11th.

As well as the new committee and seven

other patients, the meeting was attended

by Olu Bankole, the new Assistant

Practice Manager; Mr Anil Gupta, the

business director; and John Adams, the

pharmacist (already helping the PPG a

good deal). We were pleased to see staff

taking the PPG seriously.

We still want to know whether we can do

anything useful as a group. Our attempts

at patient engagement have been good

but hampered by the inability of the

practice to maintain a supply of feedback

slips and patient newsletters, and to

deliver the online newsletter. It is to be

hoped that each issue of the newsletter

can be continuously available in leaflet

form on the reception desk and put on

the practice website so that patients can

follow what is going on.

The main points of the PPG Draft

Constitution reconsidered on 11.12.13

are: to strengthen the relationship

between patients and the practice; and

working together while putting patients

first, to improve services, promote health

and improve quality of care. We shall put

the full terms of reference on the PPG

notice board and ask for them to be put

on the website.

We discussed mutual expectations of the

PPG and the practice.

Patient Feedback gave clear indications

about the need for a thorough review of

all aspects of booking and attending

appointments. Several changes of

personnel and procedures in the admin

department should help. Please keep

feedback coming so that we can see if

things are improving.

Next meeting 6pm Weds Mar.

12th at DMC.

Our next job is to get to grips with...

Telephone Triage

During the early Spring, DMC is going to

try this as a way of saving us time and

unnecessary journeys, because it is

suggested that more than half of our

problems can be dealt with by a doctor

over the phone without the need for a

visit to the surgery.

Olu says: ?Patients will ring in the

morning and speak to a receptionist who

will then place the patients on a list to be

called back by a GP. The GP will then

have a telephone consultation with the

patient assessing if a surgery visit is

needed.

?This will free up the appointments for

those that need to be seen by a GP for

observation etc. as opposed to those that

need just a prescription/letter/ or change

of medication which can be done in the

GP?s admin time and left for the patient

to pick up at their convenience.

?We have added new members of

admin to the team to enable us to deal

with the demand on the phones, and

have looked in depth at the demand and

the man power needed to enable the

triage to work.

?The appointment system as a whole

will be revamped as a result of the triage.

This is something every member of the

team will have an input in, and is being

overseen by both our Directors Anil and

Ravi, and we agree it is in need of a

change.?

There is to be a staff training day in

mid-January to prepare clinical and

admin staff for telephone triage. Helen

(PPG chair) will go along to learn about it

so that she can explain more in the next

newsletter. Please keep feedback coming

so that we can see how it is working. Try

emailing helej.chown@btinternet.com.

Budget constraints

Mr Gupta pointed out that all GP

practices have had their budgets cut back,

while being expected to deliver better

services to more people. We noted that it

is impossible to fulfil long-established

expectations in these new circumstances.

Crystal Palace Road e-issue no. 2

Patient Participation Group DMC January 2014

DMC Crystal Palace Road PPG e-news

2

The practice is looking to running from

8am to 7pm Mondays to Fridays. It is

very unlikely that Saturday surgeries will

come back.

Missed appointments

It is still very frustrating when people

don?t let the surgery know that they can?t

turn up for appointments. Doctors keep

other patients waiting for nothing. Let us

do our bit here. One suggestion was that

patients who miss pre-booked

appointments three times in succession

might be able to make on-the-day

appointments only. Admin hopes to

make better use of text reminders.

Doctors would like patients to make

better use of John Adams, the Practice

Pharmacist who can deal rapidly with all

issues surrounding repeat prescriptions.

Some of us are always late ordering

repeats! Let us do our bit here too. Have

you tried asking the local pharmacy to

put you on automatic repeat?

We are reminded that SELDOC should

be our out-of-hours first choice unless we

really need A&E. (Useful phone numbers

in the right-hand column).

A question for the future

The multi-function health centre ?hub?

planned for somewhere on the Dulwich

Hospital site is inviting GP surgeries to

come and share its premises to provide

ordinary primary care as well as the

additional specialist clinic-style services.

How would you feel about this practice

moving to that site? Comment through

the DMC website.

PPG meeting ground rules

* Meetings start on time at 6pm and stick

to schedule.

* Everyone welcome.

* All phones turned off

* Please speak ?through the chair? at

meetings to avoid everyone trying to

speak at once. Raise a hand so that the

chair knows you have something to say.

* Send discussion topics to

helenj.chown@btinternet.com, or put a

note in the patient feedback box, in

advance of meetings so that they go on

the agenda.

* The PPG is a patient forum chaired and

run by patients, so if staff wish to include

speakers and agenda items they must

advise the chair in advance of the topic,

the speaker and the time needed so that

space may be allocated on the agenda.

The Locality Patient Group for South

Southwark is preparing questionnaires to

find out what works well in local PPGs.

We look forward to having something to

report.

The new practice website is under

review. If you have constructive

suggestions about functions you would

like to see there, please email

souccg.dmccpr@nhs.net

DMC practice website is:

www.crystalpalaceroad.nhs.uk

email: souccg.dmccpr@nhs.net

Dulwich Medical Centre

163-169 Crystal Palace Road

East Dulwich

London

SE22 9EP

Phone: 0208 693 2727

SELDOC out of hours service is at

Dulwich Community Hospital,

East Dulwich Grove

London SE22 8PT

Phone: 0208 693 9066

Peckham drop-in health centre is at

Lister Health Centre

101 Peckham Road

London SE15 5LJ

Phone: 020 3049 8430

email: SOUCCG.HGPL@nhs.net

www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk for health advice or

Phone: 111

King?s College Hospital Accident and

Emergency Dept. via main switchboard

Phone: 020 3299 9900

NEXT PPG MEETING 6PM

WEDS March 12th 2014

PLEASE COME ALONG!

HJC 04.01.14

[steveo]

Doesn't prebook mean the same as book?

[Jeremy]

I received the same email as Sue.. can't see myself leaving work early to attend, when when the problems are so flippin obvious to most of us.