Cross River Tram

[LuvPeckham]

The following article is taken directly from Southwark News (http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/00,news,11879,6102,00.htm) and talks about the possibilty of Boris not giving the go ahead for the Cross River tram.

The Peckham Town Centre Management Group, along with other key stake holders, believes that the tram will be a major catalyst for improvements in the area, which will also have positive added advantages for East Dulwich.

At the bottom of this article, there is the ability to sign an electronic petition supporting the tram, and I would ask every member of the forum to visit the link and sign the petition.

Many thanks in advance.

-------------------------- Article follows --------------------------------

A BUS journey with a difference will take place in Peckham next Tuesday, as it seeks to demonstrate the need for the Cross River Tram by following its proposed route.

The tram plan, developed under former Mayor Ken Livingstone?s rule, has still not received the public backing of new Mayor Boris Johnson during his campaign or after his election. Tram campaigners are stepping up the pressure to ensure the scheme gets the go ahead.

They have now arranged the bus journey as part of the campaign. An open top sightseeing bus will be at Peckham Square at 7.30am and will leave at 8am. It will follow part of the proposed route, going through North Peckham, the Aylesbury Estate and Elephant and Castle before crossing the bridge at Waterloo.

Phil Bale, Chair of the Evolution Quarter Residents' Association, who have been leading the campaign, said: "This is an opportunity to show why the tram is important and to show why Transport for London (TfL) has pushed it as the best option for this area.

?I will say, it is an open top bus so if you are coming along maybe bring an umbrella."

The group is looking to fill the bus with supporters, who will make the journey to City Hall, where a petition will be handed over to London Assembly members Val Shawcross and Caroline Pidgeon.

Afterwards a seminar will take place at City Hall to which members of the public are welcome, with the petition being handed over to the mayor the following day at his question time session.

Val Shawcross, the assembly member for Lambeth and Southwark, said: "The local council and the community are doing a good job of keeping this project alive. It would be a big blow for the mayor's environmental credentials if he did walk away from this. To stop this now would be scandalous."

Lib Dem assembly member Caroline Pidgeon added: "There is a cost to this project and maybe we might have to do it in phases. But there will be a huge cost to the public sector if it didn't go ahead in terms of what you would have to spend on the creaking tube system and buses. So much money has been spent on this, the mayor really needs to look at this to make sure he comes to the right decision."

If you would like to take part in the demonstration turn up on the day or book a seat on the bus by contacting [email protected].

To sign the petition backing the tram visit http://www.gopetition.com/online/20734.html

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[SeanMacGabhann]

On balance I'm for it but it is worth bearing in mind some of the downsides

Down for some anyway

[PeckhamRose]

There are other downsides, and the Peckham Vision is full of the latest plans and ideas.

I am not for it.

The money could be put to better use. It could be used to make better homes and office spaces here so we didn't need to travel for example!

If Southwark were really aware of the need for this tram, they would understand why some of us use cars, and if they understood why some of us use cars, they would be more tolerant of car users. They're not. So they don't care.

Yes, it's a bad argument. I kinda like it though.

[tiddles]

yes, but does this tram go hand in hand with the tram depot - ie can we get one without the other? cos the tram depot plans were scary

[LuvPeckham]

Sean

A good point and well raised

Can I draw people's attention to the following documents concerning the Peckham Area Action Plan "PAAP" (latest issue) that talks about potential for housing on the site of the proposed tram depot should it not go ahead.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/Uploads/FILE_37326.pdf (Page 6)

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/Uploads/FILE_37327.pdf (Page 32 option B)

It does mention other uses for the site as well as housing, however it is not as cut and dry as "no depot means a creative quarter".

In response to PeckhamRose, the PTCMG agrees concerning the use of cars in Southwark, and we are currently working with partners regarding the issue of new parking costs at weekends and evenings in Peckham (already cited by businesses as driving customers away from the town centre) and I am sure that if you look at the documents above you will see what the PAAP has to offer in terms of the car parks in the town centre.

[Jeremy]

PeckhamRose - I like to see lateral thinking, but in practise I don't think that improved council housing or subsidised office space is really a substitute for improved transport links!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Am I missing something in this argument? Trams carry a lot more passengers per sq foot, ergo in a congested city they are more efficient at carrying people around. Where is the downside?

[AllforNun]

This tram needs to happen.

There is no way the Cons will let it, why do you think SE london has been so run down over the years and has no tube links.

Mass Protest - walk to city hall is the only way. Otherwise the money will just get spent on West London and Hampsted

[Marmora Man]

Am I missing something in this argument? Trams carry a lot more passengers per sq foot, ergo in a congested city they are more efficient at carrying people around.

I agree entirely but, by definition trams run on fixed lines - cars are free to roam and thus more efficient at point to point journeys.

When not biking I make much use of public transport but it's not always efficient, comfortable or pleasant. That's why cars win so many personal votes - moving around in your own personal and personalised bubble is popular.

I don't know much about this tram scheme - but tram schemes in general haven't bee hugely successful the South London one I know of down Croydon way was never extended and is, I've understood, regarded as something of a failure both financially and in terms of passenger numbers. What does a tram system offer over and above a decent bus route with bus lanes?

[AcedOut]

I can see the need for shuttle buses - those that don't stop at every lamp-post. I think this could be a much cheaper alternative and one that could work well given adequate bus lanes. However, you'd need a frequent service to make this work and a tram is always going to be faster, since it'll never get stuck in traffic. In my opinion, there are too many bus stops, which makes the service inefficient. With obvious exceptions, people should generally be prapared to walk an extra few minutes to the nearest bus station. I think this could cut down on journey times quite considerably.

[AllforNun]

Keep going.............. then we will get a review (3years) a new consultation again (2years) then a decision (1year) then a start date (4years) ..........just perfect

[PeckhamRose]

Phrases like "and we are currently working with partners regarding the issue of new parking costs at weekends and evenings in Peckham" leave me cold. Politicians just don't TALK like the rest of the human race. Who are "partners"? Frustrated shop owners? Shoppers? Workers? That's like calling patients "clients" or "end users".

I don't travel in a bubble or cage, I am a motorcyclist, but even as a motorcyclist I have sympathy for some car drivers. Those taking elderly relatives to hospital, to the locksmith trying to do his job, just ordinary folks doing what they have to do.

But my earlier point was about the fact that if we could work closer to our homes, we would not need that kind of expensive transport link. Many companies could let some of their staff work from home but they don't trust them. Yet it is proven in some studies that those who do work from home (like me) work longer hours (even taking into account constant coffee making) because we know we're lucky and don't want to lose the right!

I may be making a naive mistake in not being for the cross river tram, and I can see benefits of course. But this town is full of residential areas and look at the devastation caused when entire streets were knocked down to make way for the A12 in the 1980s. Still, that was the East End...

[AllforNun]

We need the cross river tram, that's why Ken provided the free bendy buses that go from south to north much quicker than the previous incarnations. Oh and East london line extension please ASAP.

[elipie]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know much about this tram scheme - but

> tram schemes in general haven't bee hugely

> successful the South London one I know of down

> Croydon way was never extended and is, I've

> understood, regarded as something of a failure

> both financially and in terms of passenger

> numbers.

I work near East Croydon station, the trams always look pretty packed to me.

[Jeremy]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What does a tram system offer over and

> above a decent bus route with bus lanes?

Faster - I assume traffic signals will give preference to trams, so they won't get stuck in traffic. Also, they won't have to share the tram lines which bicycles, parked white vans, etc.

Smoother - metal tracks will give a much smoother ride than london's pot-holed roads. Therefore safer to fit lots of standing passangers on.

Cleaner - electric trams won't pump out diesel fumes

[SeanMacGabhann]

Having used the trams in Croydon and Sheffield, as well as the local buses there, I agree completely with Jeremy

problem for me with the Croydon tram is it doesn't go anywhere I want to go - doesn't mean it's not useful to locals

If a tram existed between ED and Elephant and Castle I would be made up (tram stops at roadside - which is worth about 15 minutes of my day compared to meandering around the bowels of E&C station)

[AllforNun]

It would be nice to get some with faces on, the kids would love it. I am sure you could get the eyes to move a bit like thomas tank and his friends

[JohnL]

AllforNun Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We need the cross river tram, that's why Ken

> provided the free bendy buses that go from south

> to north much quicker than the previous

> incarnations. Oh and East london line extension

> please ASAP.

Seconded. Would make a big difference to me.

[PeckhamRose]

Free bendy busses? What free bendy busses? Still have to pay to go on the 12 and they're not quicker, specially when they get stuck on corners or have to stop to exchange details!

Did I miss something?

[Jeremy]

"Free" because many people don't bother paying, and it's rarely enforced.

Quicker because they spend less time at stops. People can get on and off from 3 sets of doors, and swipe oyster cards once inside the bus.

[PeckhamRose]

Ohhhh i DID miss something! Get your point. Yeah, the last 12 I went on broke down when the driver hit a wing mirror on a lamppost.

[benmorg]

I think a lot of people will support the tram proposal simply because their properties are near the route and hence likely to rise in value. The Mayor clearly needs to avoid pressure from such quarters and look at the true benefits.

[louisiana]

I have seen inspectors on the 12. If no valid swipe registered, they confiscate your Oyster card. Could be expensive if you have a lot of money on a pay as you go card.

[Wombat]

And worse because they create more congestion than they reduce.

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Free" because many people don't bother paying,

> and it's rarely enforced.

>

> Quicker because they spend less time at stops.

> People can get on and off from 3 sets of doors,

> and swipe oyster cards once inside the bus.

[AllforNun]

Inspectors, a token gesture south of the river.

As for house prices i think we are way beyond that, it's a much needed transport link, and a good one and if it actually works as a commuting method then environmentally all the better. The fact that the proposed route runs by some of the poorest areas in Southwark and could/should affect house prices and improve those areas all the better.