CCTV in Marmora Road

[Marmora Man]

Walking to the bus today I spotted new yellow signs on every lamp post stating that concealed CCTV cameras were operating in my area - they may have been there for a while but I was seeing them for the first time.

As they are concealed I couldn't find a camera - but it being a simple road of normal house & flats there's nowhere to conceal anything. So the camera is either in someone's house / flat or in a council vehicle posing a a normal parked car.

I am not in favour of burglary, dog fouling, graffitti etc that the sign claims will be deterred by the CCTV but I am against the surveillance society and do not wish to be filmed as I make my sleepy way to the No. 63 bus stop or wobble off on my bike.

Has anyone else seen such signs in their road?

I intend to call the number displayed tomorrow to find out more.

[kford]

They missed out the one it's really in place for: 'parking contraventions'.

CCTV is useless against anything else. Just ask the victims of 7/7, for example.

[david_carnell]

MM. You and I agree on little (or at least the methods to obtain it) but on this I am 100% behind you.

In my opinion CCTV is an abhorrent waste of public money, an intrusion into my private life and collosally inefficient at doing good.

What it does achieve, in those too cosseted to notice, is a reduction in "fear of crime". When all it really does is displace crime to other locations. And that's presuming these cameras are decent enough to even record anything watchable enough to be of use as evidence in a court of law. On high streets I unhappily tolerate their presence, but in residential environs I am certainly on your side, and would feel equally horrified if they were on my road.

Please let me know how you get on.

Oh, and if you fancy a spot of guerilla action in the name of liberty well, all I can say is a know a good balaclava and wire cutter stockist.

[jocelyn]

I live on Marmora Road. Have not noticed these signs yet. Will have a look out. How odd. Not sure I like the idea of it either but maybe they have done it as it is a long road and pretty dark at night to have to walk down.

[buggie]

...the number on the sign is the main switchboard number for southwark council.

[macroban]

Or it could be an untruthful notice. There may be no CCTV cameras. Just like some of those fake burglar alarm boxes on residential premises.

[PeckhamRose]

This is outrageous.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have been down your street. It's a nice street. Big expensive houses. Why does Southwark think you need cameras? To get your votes? I am on the Police Ward Panel. Burglaries are down. Street crime is down. Southwark's budgets are down (hence closing the Spike?), and if anyone wants CCTV it is some of the residents of my small estate where even there - as part of the same ward - we have little crime and not any car theft I am aware of, and we have been asking for CCTV around our garage areas for years. I shall try and make enquiries.

[AllforNun]

Drug Dealers -

[snorky]

Please dont use the term "drug dealers"

I much prefer the term "pushers"

[Keef]

Surely if It's a long dimly lit road, the council's money would be better spent on improved street lighting.

[SteveT]

If you are not 'up to anything' what does it matter, they wont affect you, will they?

[Marmora Man]

If you are not 'up to anything' what does it matter, they wont affect you, will they

That's the slow route to dictatorships.

Poem

[SeanMacGabhann]

Come on Steve use your imagination

the definition of "anything" has changed and will change over decades and governments.

At present the balance remains with "the people" but with sufficient power "the state" can take control and start to dictate. This government already stands accused of being too busy-bodyish and all political parties seem far too supine when faced with demands to do something, anything. Have a look at the controls introduced at airports since the escalation of terrorism. I'm not doing anything wrong but I'm certainly affected. Do I think measures such as 100ml containers have the SLIGHTEST impact on my actual safety? None whatsoever - but I am forced to comply anyway

Extrapolate that much power via CCTV and what do we end up with?

[louisiana]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you are not 'up to anything' what does it

> matter, they wont affect you, will they?

Presumably you think it would also be 'okay' for the authorities to install cameras in every sitting room occupied by families with children, just to make sure the parents are not beating up their kids? After all, if they are not up to anything, they have nothing to fear, huh?

(I'm not a parent.)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I think you're all overreacting and comparing CCTV to the Holocaust is bordering on offensive.

I'm with Steve on this, just ignore it and go about your business - if it's not criminal then you shouldn't be affected. Besides, it's more fun to break rules than get upset about it.

[Ant]

I don't agree, SteveT and PGC. I don't agree at all, and think that the argument you're making is actually quite a dangerous one. This article sets out much better than I could ever do why this is so.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2006/05/70886

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I just don't think CCTV in the street is a big deal. Two days ago my neighbour had extremely offensive graffiti sprayed on his van; two weeks ago he had three tyres of his car slashed. I think they were random acts, not connected, and since he is an extremely affable bloke assume it is bad luck and not a concerted attack on him.

CCTV would have gone a long way to preventing this. I'm more concerned by things like wiping out hundreds of years of our constitution by felling the House of Lords with nary a peep from anyone.

[PeckhamRose]

You can not be sure CCTV would have stopped it. People are stupid. They'd have done it anyway.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Agreed, that's why I phrased it as I did.

[SeanMacGabhann]

And who mentioned the holocaust anyway?

[Jimbob]

i,m afraid i fall into the if you,re not doing anything wrong...... category. while i can understand others concerns to be brutally honest what intrusion does a camera have on ones life, unless one is a serial nose picker all they are going to pick up (no pun intended) is persons walking and up and down the street going about their daily business. they don't make me feel any safer and as we already know they don,t necessarily stop crime. however they do fill a function in that they will make others feel safe, prevent some crimes and for those they don,t there is a chance the perpetrators will be recognised when the tapes are reviewed and hopefully brought to justice. peoples views on this subject are damned if you do, damned if you dont, however they,re here and they,re here to stay and there isnt a thing we can do about it, vote labour out, tories in the policy will remain the same, so get used to it.

[PeckhamRose]

You're aware of the phrase Designing Out Crime?

Well this is "designing in crime".

Sorry, but this is NOT a good thing.

And I stand by my earlier statement that where it COULD be useful, Southwark are choosing not to install it there despite years of requests by locals, because the housing is cheaper here than it is on Marmora Road.

Marmora Man - are you going to call the Council and find out why it has been installed? As a rate payer I am sure you are entitled to find out! Do let us know.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Blimey the Staasi would have been delighted if East Germany had more citizens like Steve, PGC and jimbob

Here is what camera's will achieve: Should you be the victim or perpetrator of a crime in the future, you will need to have thought ahead and at least look good for when ITV 57 shows the CCTV Crimes - LIVE!!!.

Have a look at some of the most crime-affected areas in the country. See all the cameras there? Gazillions of them. So who is it helping? Do people really feel safer because of them? And is that a good enough reason anyway - should my life be affected by someone elses timidity?

Any government can wash their hands of social ills if they say "well, we have invested x million in CCTV upgrades" etc - and never once address the reasons behind the crime in the first place.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Blimey Sean, now who's spoiling for a fight? I don't think timid is an epithet that could be applied to me - CCTV really doesn't impinge on my life one way or another.

I think PeckhamRose's question is valid - it would be interesting to see why a salubrious street has 'protection' - do we know where our councillors live?. I rather think the whole thing may be a wind-up or more in the vein of erecting speed cameras with no film in them.

[SeanMacGabhann]

ooops - I didn't mean to call you timid PGC - you are many things but not that!

I was referring to the statement made earlier by jimbob

"they do fill a function in that they will make others feel safe"

That's not a function - that's just appeasing people who believe everything they read

But I'm not spoiling for a fight - just aghast that people are so acquiescent. I can't think of anything positive about cameras at all - and plenty of negatives. Expensive, intrusive (and just because they don't impact on general citizens lives now doesn't mean they won't - who knows what action would have been taken if that mystery smoker INSIDE the Clockhouse had been caught on camera ;-) )