Racism and homophobia - where we are in 2008

[Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy]

>>My initial point was that some of the outlandishness at Pride does little to increase acceptance among those have pre-existing prejudices and don't come into contact with members of the gay community on a regular basis.

This reminds me of the people who said of the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence "Well you know, he was no angel himself."

That is very, very flimsy indeed.

he percentage of the black population who actually use the word "n*gger" is 'hardly any of them'.

They do in Spike Lee films.

[Keef]

I am saying that BOTH ARE EQUALLY BAD but fewer people dare to be openly, menacingly racist these days than to be openly, menacingly homophobic.

I think the answer is for gay people to form more gangs!

[James]

Great idea Keef! But we cannot run very well in our high heels and PVC trousers. And we are too busy making witty one-liners and looking for casual sexual encounters to go 'steaming' on trains...

[Horsebox]

Now that's just silly stereotyping.

[*Bob*]

James Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So what is the percentage of the population who

> use a word relating to the colour of someone's

> skin to mean "sh*t" as compared to the percentage

> of the population who use a word relating to

> someone's sexuality to mean "sh*t"?

This has nothing to do with nothing.

All I'm saying - as you FULL WELL know, is that if most gay people are using the word 'gay' to mean 'a bit rubbish' - even if oh-so-ironically whenever they feel like it, then I'm afraid you're going to have a hard time explaining to a ten year old why it's so wrong for Moyles to do it.

Glass houses / Stones.

[Jah Lush]

Exactly and it all goes back to what *Bob* said earlier in the thread. "Context is everything."

Right, I'm off to have a quick fag.

[*Bob*]

Giz a puff

[muffintop]

Nope Bob, the correct terminology is

"TWOS!!!!!"

yelled at the top of your voice remember that one at school?

[Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy]

Can I bum one off you?

[cdonline]

Bob, you keep banging on about this, but I don't see how important this is. Do gay men and women use the word gay to mean rubbish or crap?

I use lots of words to describe myself and others, homo, poof or faggot for instance. I don't use them as a put down, abuse or to bully anybody. I also don't believe that by using these words, that this is a reason for others to use them in an abusive way. In the same way, I would never shout any of these words to a complete stranger in the street.

Why can't a 10 year old be told why it is wrong to use the word gay as a derogative term?

[muffintop]

;-)

Sorry, completely mis-timed

[*Bob*]

cdonline Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bob, you keep banging on about this, but I don't

> see how important this is. Do gay men and women

> use the word gay to mean rubbish or crap?

The reason I'm 'banging on' about it is because it was the whole point of the thread which James started, as opposed to all the other guff since it did start - which is wholly unconnected.

Yes - they do. So, essentially, it's hard to complain when other people do it. And even harder to explain to a ten year old the subtlety of the difference.

[James]

So if a white person uses the word "n*gger" it's "hard to complain - because black people do it?

You make no sense whatsoever! You are totally contradicting yourself.

I never use the word "gay" to mean crap - and nor do any of my gay or straight friends. If they did I would correct them. Gay is a sexuality - it describes the way some people are.

Why is it okay to use it as a derogotary term? If someone used the word "spastic" in this way you would condemn it.

[*Bob*]

Is there an icon for pulling your t-shirt over your head an moonwalking backwards out of the door?

James - it's clear that one this one you'll do absolutely anything but acknowledge some basic facts. Either that or you and your gay friends are living in a bubble entirely separate from the rest of the gay population.

I'll be off now.

[citizenED]

And because I'm pretty sure that, whereas everyone on this thread would agree that shouting "Qu**r", "Ba**y Boy" "Fa**ot" at someone in the street in an agressive or threatening manner is abusive and wrong, not everyone agrees that using the term "gay" to mean rubbish is in the same league.

[Keef]

Hopefully though, everyone would agree that Chris Moyles is a tw@t!

[????]

I agree

[James]

It's a bit sad that some people are still happy to turn a blind eye to flagrant double standards.

It is you who is living in a weird bubble Bob - where it's perfectly acceptable to use a word that describes someone's sexuality as a slur.

By the way Citizen, I didn't say that this is the same as someone shouting homophobic abuse at you in the street but thanks for twisting my words again.

The word "gay" is unique in being used like this. Do you not understand this yet? It is a pretty basic and simple point. I can't keep repeating myself if you're determined not to listen.

[capt_birdseye]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hopefully though, everyone would agree that Chris

> Moyles is a tw@t!

So you think it's OK to use a woman's sexual organs as a derogatory term? ;-)

Complaining about the hijacking of the word 'Gay' is sweetly ironic. I wonder if there was all this broo-ha-ha years back when people realised they could no longer admit to being in a gay mood?

[James]

Because of course, nobody calls anyone a "dickhead" or a "cock" do they?

[*Bob*]

The double standards are that GAY PEOPLE say it AS A SLUR frequently.

The simple point is the GAY PEOPLE say it AS A SLUR frequently.

The only one determined not to listen, James.. IS YOU

I really am off now. This is utterly pointless.

[citizenED]

James you said: "By the way Citizen, I didn't say that this is the same as someone shouting homophobic abuse at you in the street but thanks for twisting my words again."

And I never said you did. And I know you don't think that.

[James]

>>GAY PEOPLE say it AS A SLUR frequently

Absolute drivel.

1) I never do and have never heard a gay person use the word in this way

2) How can I "slur" myself?

Best give up now Bob. You are talking nonsense.

[*Bob*]

If you are honestly telling me that you've never heard a gay person tell someone else (in ironic jest) to stop being so gay / such a poof, you must be blind, deaf and dumb. And gay, obviously.

[James]

We are talking about the gay word being used to mean "sh*t" - not "camp" or anything else.

No other word to describe a minority is used like this so openly and pervasively.

I have repeated this numerous times. You must be illiterate. If I were bigoted I would say "how gay of you".

Do you understand now?