Misleading Service Charge at The Herne Tavern

[j.r.robertson]

I have been an occasional regular at the Herne Tavern for several years and have recently learnt something I think serious and noteworthy to post on the EDF so that other patrons or visitors are aware.

As most will know the pub has recently changed ownership and management and for which I think for the most part is for the better as the atmosphere is great and the quality of the food under the new chefs has risen dramatically..... BUT, the Herne has now introduced a 20% service charge that is automatically added to the bill on all food and drink consumed that requires table service ie Sunday Lunch etc....'Not an issue you think' we expect and are happy to give a tip for 'good service', unfortunately the new ownership and management pocket this and DO NOT pass any of this extra revenue on to the waiters/ waitress, kitchen staff who you would suppose this small bonus would be directed.

The owners retain this extra amount as part of the gross profit, therefore meaning you are without question paying 20% more for the overall bill thinking it as a tip (it is not)! I for one think this is a greedy and underhanded attempt to make more money and mislead the customers.

Should you eat at the Herne (as it is still good) please refuse to pay the 20% added service charge and if the staff deserve it, leave the tip in cash. They are good guys and girls in there and it is a shame they are getting walked over by greedy management and that the we the patrons are being mislead.

Thanks for reading

John

[reeko]

20% is a huge mark up - to be honest I think I would refuse to pay that mark up for a pub lunch anyways.

For that not to be going to the staff is awful. I had thought this practice had been outlawed a year or two after a general outcry.

[j.r.robertson]

I thought so to hence why I felt this had to posted. I'm presuming the attitude is 'you are on minimum wage and are easily replaced so tough, dont like it, leave!'. I run my own business' and think its a shame as the people you employ (especially in a service capacity such as this) actually make for part of the experience and should, if deserved be rewarded in the tips left.

[alice]

i predict an answer from herne stating that this money is shared among all staff kitchen and waiting - in the interests of fair play

[j.r.robertson]

"i predict an answer from herne stating that this money is shared among all staff kitchen and waiting - in the interests of fair play"......

I hope they do in the interests of fair play - Everyone that does frequent the Herne just has to ask the waiter/ waitress serving one question: Do you receive the service charge? I bet you get a semi-embarrassed reply of eeer NO! Apparently they stopped divvying up the tips to the staff on duty 2 months past, introduced the automatic service charge and have retained all the cash ever since.....

Its not just this being unfair..... they are deceiving their patrons!

[reeko]

OP - do you know for definite that tips do not go to staff. You say "I bet" and "apparently" in your last post. Have you had the conversation as you describe with a member of staff?

If not I think I will reserve judgment until this has been confirmed.

[j.r.robertson]

100 percent - we ate in the Herne yesterday and asked one of the guys (staff) directly did they get this as noticed the service charge had been introduced since the last time.

[PokerTime]

Sadly the management can legally keep all of the service charge. 20% is just greedy. It's not the Ivy!!!!!

[j.r.robertson]

"management can legally keep all of the service charge. 20% is just greedy. It's not the Ivy".......That is sad but true..... people should also remember the service charge is a non-compulsory and added automatically to give the impression it must be paid or people just don't notice. A pub like the Herne relies heavily on its regular and repeat customers due to location, they shouldn't take the pi** out of the customers (or the staff for that matter) like they are!

Remember ask for the service charge to be removed! I for one dont mind paying ?15 for a pub meal BUT when I am asked to pay ?18 sneakily that just gets me. (x2 people add a couple of drinks, thats approx an unwarranted tenner on top for two people going to the owners out of pure greed).

[Cyclemonkey]

I think what was made illegal was using tips to top up minimum wage. As long as businesses comply with minimum wage legislation i'm not sure they are compelled to pass tips and service directly on to staff, however i could be wrong.

I tip staff in cash where i think there has been good service and am happy to pay a good 15% if part of a large group that has used a large part of staff time. However i hate it when places add the "optional" charge on to the bill. The worst recent offender i experienced was the gastro pub in central London that tried to add 20% on to the bill for a single bowl of chips. In my opinion if you offer table service you should cost that into your advertised prices and leave your customers to reward staff with cash tips.

[citylover]

This was common practice when I was a waitress, everywhere I worked the automatic service charge was used to pay our wages, if it wasn't enough of course the boss made up the difference. At one well known place in Kensington & Chelsea the owners also took 50% of our cash tips. Not fair but little you (the worker) can do about it if you want to keep your job.

[PokerTime]

But legally it has to be clear there is a service charge BEFORE you order. That can either be clearly written on the menu or it can stated verbally. I agree JR. It the same owner as the Half Moon Pub (which I think is still closed after the flood last year). Given the choice between a pub dinner with a 20% service charge, or the excellent Si Mangia practically next door, my money won't be going to the Herne Tavern.

[j.r.robertson]

Its just a shame they choose to do this thinking the clientele are stupid. Hope this post gives them the push to make it discretionary again rather than auto added out of greed as the pub really is a good local. (doubt it though!)

[Jeremy]

20% is outrageous, I've never been charged that in a restaurant or pub. Is that definitely correct?

[StraferJack]

according to the website it's 10%

http://www.theherne.net/menus

[Rolo Tomasi]

Went yesterday. 10%.

[JohnL]

It's not a service charge then - it's an opportunity to reduce your bill.

I think you have to state up front you won't pay it (could be wrong).

[Jeremy]

10% makes more sense. Plenty of pubs round here add a similar charge for table service.

[PokerTime]

And it does say that it's discretionary, meaning you don't have to pay it?

[James D]

I don't know whether it's 10% or 20% but that's the old website. The new website, I think, is here: http://www.thehernetavern.co.uk

[StraferJack]

Oops. Good spot James, thanks

[showboat]

PokerTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And it does say that it's discretionary, meaning

> you don't have to pay it?

No one is EVER required to pay a service charge. They are completely discretionary, and if the business tells you otherwise invite them to discuss the matter with HMRC, who take a very dim view of such things.

[showboat]

I'm actually not convinced the whole thing is totally legal. Certainly if true it's incredibly immoral, almost unheard of in this day and age.

Any owner who tried that with my staff would discover very quickly what discontent means...

[PokerTime]

Hmmm....the plot thickens James D. Menus have to clearly state if a service charge is added. Not sure if that extends to online but seems a bit disingenuous to leave that out, only to hit customers with it when they arrive to eat. I'm inclined to believe the OP now, which means if a table of four spend ?120, they will be hit with another ?22 for the privilege of a someone walking all of a few metres from the kitchen with their food!!!!! IT'S JUST A GLORIFIED PUB FFS!!!!!!

[Sue]

IF TRUE, I think a number of things here are bloody disgraceful:

1. An exorbitant 20% service charge

2. The fact that it isn't given to staff - so if you've had good service and want the person who served you to be recognised for it, you have to pay both the service charge AND leave a tip?

3. The fact that it isn't made clear before you eat that there is a service charge.

I hated the old Herne Tavern for various reasons, so it's disappointing that it doesn't sound like I'd want to visit the new incarnation either if there is greedy management exploiting hard-working staff :(