Incident Somerfields (Lounged)

[Louisa]

Sean, you may not be knowingly defending the rights of the criminal in your eyes, you may well think you are actually standing up for democracy and what you believe to be right in a democracy - but you fail to accept that by doing so you are immediately giving the original criminal back the emphasis to stand up on their high horse and view society with contempt for letting them get away with it - which based on my understanding and experience of the courts is exactly what will happen. I agree with James, the middle classes do take some sort of pride in standing up for rule of law (quite rightly), but nowadays they go a step too far by completely ignoring the causes of the incident in the first place, which was a shop lifter entering a shop and stealing. I cannot continue this conversation because it makes me angry, do-gooders never see things from another point of view hence why this country is ruled by a bunch of middle class liberals who do not take basic reasoning into account.

Louisa.

[Cassius]

In Russia and I expect in other countries too, the shop staff (including the security staff) have any losses from shoplifting taken from their wages - this installs in them a good reason for watching out for shoplifters and being rather heavy-handed if apprehending them. I am sure that this policy does not apply to Somerfield.

[AcedOut]

Cassius - It's a shame the city didn't implement that strategy with credit traders and risk managers!

[elipie]

My mum always told me that two wrongs don't make a right. My brother would steal my toys, I'd hit him, he'd go crying to Mum and we'd both get a telling-off.

Ok so it's a huge oversimplification but you get my point?

[*Bob*]

In a local 'Spar', when I was about ten years old, the shopkeeper rapped the back of my hand with a tube of Smarties (smartly). I was trying to steal a Mars Bar at the time. I never tried to steal anything from that shop again.

Who knows, if I'd received a brace of slaps and perhaps a cracked rib or two instead of being lightly admonished with a tube of sweets, I might not have gone on to pinch Rolos from the other newsagent and handfuls of pick n mix from Woolies? Or they could have held me down and stabbed me in the eye, which would certainly have put me off stealing sweets for life, I assure you.

Nobody knows if the bloke was even shoplifting.

Nobody knows if the bloke was shoplifting and threw a punch before alleged 'aaht of ordaa' restraint by staff.

As usual, nobody knows anything. But it's comforting to see that the usual pointlessly polarised battlelines have already been drawn.

[cdonline]

It sounds that the staff stepped out of line and it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story. There are plenty of people who believe criminals are able to use the system to their advantage.

Without hopefully sounding like a facist, doesn't it come down to people not caring for authority, whether it's staff in a shop or staff at hospitals or the police. I absolutely believe the rule of law, but if it leaves everybody unable to deal with somebody committing a crime, what do you do? Just to spend your time seething at people appearing to 'get away with it'.

A while ago, I watched the police take a chap who was causing unrest at a tube station and bundled him away. There were people taking photos, as they wanted to believe that they were watching police brutality, rather than them just doing their job.

Perhaps, he said something about their Mums.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

elipie Wrote:

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> My mum always told me that two wrongs don't make a

> right. My brother would steal my toys, I'd hit

> him, he'd go crying to Mum and we'd both get a

> telling-off.

...and if you did hurt him,how many times did this re-occur?..Even if it did in your example,my long experience tells me that people are infinitely more likely to continue with something if they get away with it.Indeed they push the boundaries even more.A thief will steal,say ?25, then ?50 and will "up the ante" if there is little or no comeback....

[Asset]

seamusmac Wrote:

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> How many of the good people posting here can say

> that they have never shoplifted, even a sweetie as

> a kid. Nicked the apples from an orchard or grazed

> on grapes in the supermarket.I am not condoning

> crime but Snorky makes a good point and some

> people are just a little too quick to point the

> finger.

I was just about to say that myself. I for one will hold my hands up and admit to a bit of pilfering in the past, certainly don't think I deserve a good kicking for it and it hasn't led to a descent into a life of crime either.

[elipie]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

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> ...and if you did hurt him,how many times did this

> re-occur?..Even if it did in your example,my long

> experience tells me that people are infinitely

> more likely to continue with something if they get

> away with it.Indeed they push the boundaries even

> more.A thief will steal,say ?25, then ?50 and will

> "up the ante" if there is little or no

> comeback....

The point I was making, which someone else made earlier, is that it wasn't up to me to dole out the punishment and in doing so, I got myself into trouble as well.

And to answer your question, it made no difference at all whether I retaliated with brother or not - he still nicked my toys!

[Tony.London Suburbs]

elipie Wrote:

he still nicked my toys!....LOL..I might that might be the case!:))

[kford]

NAIL 'em up I say! Nail some sense into 'em!

[HonaloochieB]

kford Wrote:

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> NAIL 'em up I say! Nail some sense into 'em!

Jesus Christ, KFord.

[SCSB79]

HeidiHi Wrote:

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> So if it was a girl or a woman who was a repeated

> shoplifter, would it be ok to hit her also? after

> all, a shoplifter is a shoplifter!

Absolutely.

[Brendan]

Don't know about you mate but where I come from we don't hit women.

[Mellors]

I can't believe anybody thinks that hitting somebody else is a justifiable solution to anything, be it child, adult, man or woman! Has the world gone quite mad?

[Jah Lush]

What Brendan and Mellors said.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Absolutely! If I'm ever burgled and apprehend the culprits,I shall ask them if they wouldn't mind awfully waiting for the local constabulory to arrive,while naturally apologising for any inconvenience caused all round.I shall then hand them over and wave them off with a cheery smile.Violence never solved anything.I'm sure a consoling arm round the shoulder will do the trick in this potentially awkward situation.

[Louisa]

I think that this argument has become terribly predictable and obviously polarised. I note that working class people know what scum are and they know how devious they can be. I never stole as a child and my circumstances were far from perfect I can assure you, but I had a sense of pride installed from an early age that you have to work bloody hard for whatever you get, especially in a country so fixated with keeping the class system going, never allowing the lower classes to progress however hard they work, never quite being allowed into 'the club', unless you happen to be born into it of course. With the greatest deal of respect, I do appreciate what some people on here are saying about the rule of law and how violence breeds violence, but in my opinion this 'underclass' of people who have developed out of the welfare nanny state society we have been living in post 1945 have been given a free ride by the very people who want to install a sense of democracy and social cohesion in our 21st century society. The middle classes do not recognise the damage that they have done to our society as a whole through the legal system and cultural liberalism which has penetrated every aspect life.

Louisa.

[Loz]

Tony.London Suburbs - if you look out the window and find someone who looks like Mike Tyson's bigger brother trying to break into you car. What do you do first? a) punch him in the mouth or b) kick him in the goolies??

Summary justice only 'works' (and I use the term lightly) when you are a lot bigger and/or outnumber the person in question, really, doesn't it? When that doesn't apply, the bravado ain't so strong.

[local1]

I suspect like all women beaters they wont pick on someone there own size.

[Mellors]

I am quite speechless at some of the load of old balls that has been spoken on this thread.

[kford]

HonaloochieB Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> kford Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > NAIL 'em up I say! Nail some sense into 'em!

>

> Jesus Christ, KFord.

!

[Asset]

How unsurprising that Lousia has gone off on a class rant. Is she not aware that there is hardly a working class left in this country? There are two classes - the aristocracy and everyone else.

[coachkelly]

MM...apologies if this has been brought up as I tried to read all posts but may have missed one or two, but as you witnessed what seems like a criminal assault ,did you report it to the Police?

[Louisa]

Asset what a load of b*llox! The growth and acceptance of the 'underclass' in this country is a result of an over friendly welfare state and do-gooder middle class people, like yourself, who allow them to get away with murder(or shoplifting)!!

Louisa.