Council Plans to Flood Dulwich Park - Consultation Close to Closing

[lemerson]

Dear Kruger

The Herne Hill flood were due to a massive water mains bursting at the juntion of Stradella and Herne Hill Road. It had nothing to do with weather.

[James Barber]

These works are to store water in torrential weather and release it gradually from parks rather than overwhelming local drains. From memory they are propsoed for Brockwell, Belair and Dulwich Parks.

Even with cleared drains stormy weather soon blows leaves etc around and blocks drains.

The last and this government have devolved such flood alleviation responsiblity to local councils and provided the money to undertake these works - Thames Water I believe are also contributing. Alleyn's school has such works to stop flooding of residential Lordship Lane/Playfield Crescent properties.

From the parks perspective the odd week they'll be affecxted once every decade or so.

Children will have fun running up and down the earth mounds - which is almost exactly how the naturalistic play movement build their playgrounds.

[spider69]

How will these mounds effect the visual aspect of the park.

Is there a plan you could put up to show where they will be in the park

[the-e-dealer]

He's put a link up to the consultation papers with just that in them.

[jomou]

These proposals sound perfectly sensible, not to mention being much more environmentally friendly, easy to maintain and less disruptive to build than any substantial upgrade to 'proper drainage' (by which I presume you mean holes and pipes in the ground).

In fact, the proposals do contain new drainage in the form of flood meadows etc which hold more water than a flat lawn - and this keeps water out of the sewer which in turn reduces the likelihood of sewer flooding. So-called 'soft' drainge measures like this are perfectly good and 'proper' drainage, and would be endorsed by any civil engineer worth their salt.

[spider69]

If its on twitter its of no use to me

[lemerson]

jomou Wrote:

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> These proposals sound perfectly sensible, not to

> mention being much more environmentally friendly,

>

> In fact, the proposals do contain new drainage in

> the form of flood meadows etc which hold more

> water than a flat lawn -

Hang on - so the plans include losing a large grass area where local people play, eat picnics, and relax all year round, over many years, and replace that permanently with a "flood meadow" scheme for the 1 in 75 year storm?! Sorry it doesn't add up. Nor do I want the park turned into Telly Tubby Land with these eyesores built. 'Soft drainage' sounds like a friendly phrase by engineers charged with solving a problem with no money. Surely clever engineers can divert the waters to the other side of the South Circular - the Dutch manage it?!

[bloodyjon]

So you have no problem with this as long as another park bears the brunt out of sight? Nimby.

[spider69]

bloodyjon Wrote:

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> So you have no problem with this as long as

> another park bears the brunt out of sight? Nimby.

Why should any park bear this, it has never been a problem until the area became what it is now. Am glad I have managed to survive so far. What would happen if Rose the butcher and Moxons flooded. Not to mention the insects that will drown.

Give me a break

[lemerson]

bloodyjon Wrote:

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> So you have no problem with this as long as

> another park bears the brunt out of sight? Nimby.

Surely no public park space should be used when open fields (not parks and prob owned by Dulwich Estate which can surely cover much more of the cost?!) could be used just a few hundred feet away.

[bloodyjon]

Like it or not you live in an urban city where the city landscape will evolve. Floods will happen more often than not and just because a major flood hasn't occurred in *your* lifetime doesn't mean it won't in the future. In any case the park will only be flooded when necessary thus saving people's properties and businesses from destruction. Or is the sight of damage properties and likelihoods better than spoiling your precious park for that one week in decades when it actually do flood? Stop being so selfish.

[lemerson]

Dear Jon

The aggressive and accusatory tone of your emails is unnecessary. I reiterate:

.little public consultation has been given & application slipped in just before Xmas

.vast numbers of people's use of park potentially affected permanently

.parks in urban areas should be protected

.parks should be there for the use of all current & future residents

.there are other options which should be considered openly

.Dulwich Estate has some responsibility to protect those residents' properties which have been affected in the past

.this thread was started to canvas opinions

.attempts to shut down debate by speeding through planning approval is undemocratic

Thank you

[Robert Poste's Child]

In principle it sounds a reasonable safety net if it's only used in very extreme circumstances and Thames Water don't use it to drain off those endless leaks around Woodwarde Road, for example.

Some of those poor people on Half Moon Lane have only just reopened. And that fine brown stuff that lined the street to thigh height and gradually turned into dust that passers-by inhaled wasn't actually silt. Though it does contain three of the same letters.

[lemerson]

Dear Robert the recent HH flooding was due to a burst in a large water main drain owned by Thames Water. It was not due to weather.

[Robert Poste's Child]

I'm not sure the cause of a flood is relevant.

[mikeb]

Robert - lemerson's point is that the flood in Herne Hill last year would not have been prevented or alleviated by these plans.

I'd still appreciate any details on location and cause of the floods referred to in the proposals.

[siouzie14]

Hi

The Southwark consultation is closing on 1st Feb 2014 so plenty of time to respond.

The Flood works are being funded by DEFRA and Thames Water. Southwark have a lead local authority responsibility for managing flood risk. There is a national and London-wide initiative to tackle surface water floods.

There was a public consultation with workshops and an exhibition November/December 2013 before the planning application was submitted, and 1000 residents in the areas most affected and groups like the Friends of Dulwich and Belair Parks, Dulwich Society, Dulwich Estate were invited by letter to participate. Residents and the Friends & other groups attended & contributed & debated.

The proposed flood alleviation works are to reduce the risk of surface water flooding across the Dulwich and Herne Hill area - in times of severe storms the surface water flows in the same direction, emanating across our urban landscape from such places as Norwood & Sydenham across Dulwich Park & Belair Park, then across the sports fields and onward to Herne Hill where there is a tendency for the water to "pond".

There was a serious surface water flood in 2004 after a massive storm including hailstones which affected many roads in the Dulwich area, flooding basements; water was knee deep; cars floating along the road. The surface water collected in Herne Hill where it ponded and all the Half Moon shops were flooded. The Herne Hill photos in the consultation papers show the 2004 flood not the one in August 2013 which as said previously was caused by a burst water main, but the effect was the same. The Half Moon parade was flooded.

Since December 2013, the Environment Agency has published surface water flood maps (as well as maps of river and sea flooding). Insert your postcode at http://watermaps.environment-agency.gov.uk/wiyby/wiyby.aspx?topic=ufmfsw#x=357683&y=355134&scale=2 to see impact of surface water floods in your area.

Once the works are in place, they should help to reduce waterlogging on the pitches. Anyone interested in the works in the parks should talk to the Friends of Dulwich Park or Friends of Belair Park who I'm sure will be happy to discuss the pro's and con's of the flood works. I'm sure the Southwark Flood Team will also be happy to help.

Hope this helps.

[lemerson]

Dear Souzie thank you for your response which suggests you have a great deal of knowledge on the subject. Could you clarify whether you represent the council, political party or contractor for the record so we all know where we stand?

Many thanks

[nxjen]

lemerson Wrote:

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> Dear Souzie thank you for your response which

> suggests you have a great deal of knowledge on the

> subject. Could you clarify whether you represent

> the council, political party or contractor for the

> record so we all know where we stand?

>

> Many thanks

Actually, I'm curious who you, lemerson, represent. It's very strange that such hostility should be shown towards these proposals which, as far as I can see, may result in parts of the park being unusable for very short periods of time at very infrequent intervals. And good luck with your idea that not only should the "flood meadow" be located on the open fields south of the south circular which may be owned by Dulwich Estate but that they should also pay for the works.

Thank you Siouzie14 for giving context and background information to the consultation.

[the-e-dealer]

Liz rowland

[spider69]

siouzie14 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi

>

> The Southwark consultation is closing on 1st Feb

> 2014 so plenty of time to respond.

>

> The Flood works are being funded by DEFRA and

> Thames Water. Southwark have a lead local

> authority responsibility for managing flood risk.

> There is a national and London-wide initiative to

> tackle surface water floods.

>

> There was a public consultation with workshops and

> an exhibition November/December 2013 before the

> planning application was submitted, and 1000

> residents in the areas most affected and groups

> like the Friends of Dulwich and Belair Parks,

> Dulwich Society, Dulwich Estate were invited by

> letter to participate. Residents and the Friends &

> other groups attended & contributed & debated.

>

> The proposed flood alleviation works are to reduce

> the risk of surface water flooding across the

> Dulwich and Herne Hill area - in times of severe

> storms the surface water flows in the same

> direction, emanating across our urban landscape

> from such places as Norwood & Sydenham across

> Dulwich Park & Belair Park, then across the sports

> fields and onward to Herne Hill where there is a

> tendency for the water to "pond".

>

> There was a serious surface water flood in 2004

> after a massive storm including hailstones which

> affected many roads in the Dulwich area, flooding

> basements; water was knee deep; cars floating

> along the road. The surface water collected in

> Herne Hill where it ponded and all the Half Moon

> shops were flooded. The Herne Hill photos in the

> consultation papers show the 2004 flood not the

> one in August 2013 which as said previously was

> caused by a burst water main, but the effect was

> the same. The Half Moon parade was flooded.

>

> Since December 2013, the Environment Agency has

> published surface water flood maps (as well as

> maps of river and sea flooding). Insert your

> postcode at

> http://watermaps.environment-agency.gov.uk/wiyby/w

> iyby.aspx?topic=ufmfsw#x=357683&y=355134&scale=2

> to see impact of surface water floods in your

> area.

>

> Once the works are in place, they should help to

> reduce waterlogging on the pitches. Anyone

> interested in the works in the parks should talk

> to the Friends of Dulwich Park or Friends of

> Belair Park who I'm sure will be happy to discuss

> the pro's and con's of the flood works. I'm sure

> the Southwark Flood Team will also be happy to

> help.

>

> Hope this helps.

How much of this could attributed to poor maintance of sewers and drains. I seem to recall this was mentioned as one of the main causes back in 2004?

Is there a plan that could be put on the forum of the dykes or what ever that will be put in Dulwich Park so we have some idea of what is going to happen.

Many thanks

[the-e-dealer]

Post 4 in this thread has a link to the plans.

[DaveR]

"Dear Souzie thank you for your response which suggests you have a great deal of knowledge on the subject. Could you clarify whether you represent the council, political party or contractor for the record so we all know where we stand?"

I don't get this. Souzie's post was pretty much 100% factual. Are you saying that if, for example, she is a local councillor, you won't believe her? I'm afraid you're coming across as a bit of a nutter.

[spider69]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

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> Post 4 in this thread has a link to the plans.

Thanks. Getting old missed it

[mikeb]

I think that's unfair, lemerson made a reasonable request in a polite manner. Siouzie's contribution was helpful, in particular the suggestion to speak to the Friends of the Park. But yes, I would assess her contribution differently if she were a councillor or contractor (though I don't believe she is either).

In terms of past floods, I've found reference to a report titled "An Investigation of Sewer Flooding in Dulwich, 2004" though not yet the report itself. I think the environment agency maps are derived from information provided by Southwark Council. A bit difficult to make much more progress with Southwark's website being down.