Ghosts and paranormal activity in ED & PR

[Louisa]

Oh SJ stop the hating of all things spiritual, I know you secretly want to see something and are quite peeved spirit has not put out to you yet! And I have heard and experienced things it isn't just hear-say! RPC yes those early post-death experiences are quite common, lots of people have had this happen. Spirit tends to be quite unsettled if they do not want to Pass just yet and this phenomenon is quite normal.

Louisa.

[StraferJack]

Nothing spiritual about it

Don't claim anything "spiritual". It bestows a gravitas that this made up nonsense doesn't deserve.

I wanted it to be true. When I was 12. I wanted it so bad I read and consumed everything available. But as I grew up I realised it was nonsense. And in those 30+ years, communications and tech have expanded exponentially. And still there is nothing. No documented anything

But people who "want" to believe. Grown up adults. Still persist in ticking off others for not " seeing"

I'm angry because it shows that if people can believe this them they can believe anything. And in the real world where science and politics and rolling up sleeves is what get things done that ticks me off

People who believe this are one step from scientoligists. Not even that

And if ever my "arrogance" is proven wrong and I have to eat humble pie I'll do it gladly

But guess what.... It won't happen

Has there ever been any, any, consequence to anyone witnessing this stuff? No. Just people "seeing stuff"

How convenient

[maxxi]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "A friend. A family member. I was told."

>

> Over and over again

>

> A lot less "I was there and I definitely

> saw/recorded/was with someone else who saw same

> thing"

>

> And instead of "hmmm good point" it's all " some

> people don't want to believe and are just plain

> rude bwah hah hah"

>

> Grow the @#$%& up people

>

> Santa. Not real

> Yeti. Not real

> UFO. Not real

> Ghosts. Not real

Don't forget - God. Not real.

[StraferJack]

Obvs. But I was making a deliberate effort not to derail the argument via religion

[Robert Poste's Child]

I phoned the same friend once and had a rather strange conversation as she had called me at the same time and our calls met in the middle, with neither phone actually ringing.

Not sure I see this stuff as necessarily spiritual, though. Physicists can prove that everything is composed of energy, that everything that has lived has an energy field, and apparently that time is non-linear outside our day-to-day experience (don't ask me for references as I'm not that bothered) so it seems reasonable that in some circumstances some people might unwittingly tap into this somehow.

Science isn't always black and white: when you hold hands with someone, you know which is your hand and which is theirs, but at the simplest molecular level you can't see where one person stops and the other begins. I find that rather beautiful.

[aquarius moon]

SJ

Just because it hasn't happened to you yet, doesn't mean it won't.

I've been lucky in that everybody close to me is still alive, but when the worse happens I'll be comforted by the thought that they may come back.

My 13 year old cat was put to sleep at the vet 2008. A few days later I heard her scratching in her litter tray, then felt her pawing on my bed, circling to get comfortable & lay down.

I couldn't believe it at the time, but it was only the once and has never happened since.

So....

It can happen to anyone. Including you! x

[Louisa]

Guys there is no argument, we are just human beings and we only know what we know and can prove to date. I'm sure there is a lot more beyond our understanding, even the ability to which our understanding can stretch. So all the nay sayers arrogantly using logic to dismiss another's belief can carry on doing so. It bothers me not. I still believe whether you do or not.

Louisa.

[Louisa]

am that's such a sweet story. I once too had a passed animal communication when I lived in a flat just off commercial way in Peckham. Animals for whatever reason seem to be more susceptible, alongside children, to these experiences. And anyone who has EVER used a Ouija board will know EXACTLY what those of us who talk of these experiences mean. Although I would advise against their use at all costs, they DO work.

Louisa.

[StraferJack]

I give up

[maxxi]

aplgs SJ - just felt like the elephant in the room - now if you hadn't mentioned Santa...

[binary_star]

-

[StraferJack]

Thing is, a lot of spiritualists pride themselves on not falling for religion. So i felt introducing god into argument was counter productive.

But yknow. Jesus saves. Cats claw. Animals talk. Whatever

[Robert Poste's Child]

I was involved in a group psychometry exercise once, years ago - not something I've done before or since. The leader gave everyone a photo related to his personal life in an envelope and you had to blurt out the first images that came into your head. I saw a woman with dark hair, a curve in a wide, brown river with a muddy shoreline and the sun on the water, then a sort of industrial interior with small metal things going through the air on a belt. They were just flashes but clear, so I described them, feeling like a total idiot. When I opened it, the picture was of his mother, who was originally from Sheffield, who lost another son when he drowned in the river.

Maybe the guy was a charlatan but I can't see what he got out of it if so.

[Louisa]

Some spiritualists take the religious route - my spiritualist church takes readings from the bible and hymns in the service. Others do not. Some spiritualists charge, others do not. Like everything in this world, some people are genuinely doing it because they believe, others want to make a quick buck. Some people choose to believe regardless of science and logic, others take the polar opposite opinion. So, erm, yeah... Anyway... RPC I too had a spirit medium give me a reading and without me even opening my mouth names were thrown at me with solid descriptions and job titles. I was astounded.

Louisa.

[StraferJack]

Never mind what he got out of it, what did you?

Hadn't done it before and not since? If it was genuinely powerful or, god forbid, useful, why not pursue this fantastic avenue

[Burbage]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>.... So all the nay sayers

> arrogantly using logic to dismiss another's belief

> can carry on doing so.

That's like accusing someone of 'arrogantly' choosing a spoon to eat their soup. For a start, it's not a belief. It's a hollow excuse by which people are encouraged not to seek professional help when they have hallucinations. At this time of the year, when the weather can causes hallucinogenic conditions such as hypothermia, sleep-deprivation and depression, that may not be as useful a message as you think it is.

As I nearly mentioned before, admitting the baseless existence of spirits is harmful. For once you have spirits, you have to have good spirits and bad spirits and mechanisms, from the ouija board to the meat-cleaver, for driving them from one place to another. By the time the effects of that sort of nonsense get to court, it's usually far too late.

Happily, the nature of the 'other world', the foundations of Rupert Sheldrake's theories and RPC's atomic theories were all neatly addressed, amalgamated and explained long ago through the tireless work of the philosopher-scientist de Selby, accounts of which have been laid accessibly before the public in the works of Flann O'Brien.

[StraferJack]

It's as if people look at David Copperfield or David Blaine and go "wow. amazing. Must be true"

[Louisa]

Maybe you could inform the 2.1 billion Christians, 1.6 billion Muslims and those who follow other 'illogical' and unproven scientific understandings of the universe of this Burbage. I'm guessing the "admitting the baseless existence" of spirits is on a par with the 'baseless existence of god'. I reckon we will have a large number of jobs for mental health experts if we are to cure all these illogical folk of their odd belief systems.

Louisa.

[aquarius moon]

SJ,

Did you even read my post?

Stop being so defensive and be more patient x

[StraferJack]

What does that even mean Aquarius ?

I read your post. You claimed your cat was put to sleep, but like Stephen kings per semetary it came back?

And I'm defensive and impatient?

[MagMag]

Burbage wrote: "explained long ago through the tireless work of the philosopher-scientist de Selby, accounts of which have been laid accessibly before the public in the works of Flann O'Brien."

Flann O'Brien!! Came across him for the first time today as recommended reading at the back of a book that I don't own and haven't read!

Co-incidence or synchronicity? Accident or connectivity? Watch out Burbage..... we might be quantum entangled!!!

[Louisa]

SJ, it sounds odd I know, but animals coming back from the dead are just as plausible as humans coming back. I've felt what I believe to be a cat rubbing around my legs with no possible explanation of what else it could be (I was naked at the time).

Louisa.

[Burbage]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe you could inform the 2.1 billion Christians,

> 1.6 billion Muslims and those who follow other

> 'illogical' and unproven scientific understandings

> of the universe of this Burbage.

You're confusing ritual with belief. The former has a useful social purpose. The latter is what people are taught to say, typically from an early age, to avoid ostracism or, in some places, death.

[StraferJack]

Louisa. Totally agree. Just as plausible. Exactly the same level of plausibility.

[Louisa]

Ritual - spiritualist churches such as mine allow large numbers of elderly and lonely people to come along once or sometimes twice a week and take part in a service in familiar surroundings with people they know and enjoy their experience. "Useful social purpose"

Belief - "to avoid ostracism or death" this works fine in some examples, but not all, by any means. Good examples being 'born again christians' who find god themselves without any of the baggage attached to growing up in religion or being fearful of exclusion. Many spiritualists fall into this category.

Louisa.