Pathetic old racist fart on Frogley road (Lounged)

[woodie]

yeah man thats rude. how you doin?

[Sue]

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Message sent to NatashaD:

>

> You have been told about this before. The original

> poster has stated that they have been racially

> abused yet you refuse to understand that they feel

> abused and therefore, with a lack of

> understanding, you abuse them further. Do not do

> it again.

>

> Regards

>

> The Administrator

>

>

> This is in reference to this posting previously

> where a user stated they felt racially abused

> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?2

> 0,140553,142242#msg-142242 and were told to "get

> over it" by NatashaD. This behaviour, whether it

> is done because of an enjoyment of causing offence

> or thinking it is amusing to stir up personal

> anguish is wrong. Being controversial is fine

> however being controversial for controversy's sake

> at other people's expense is not something I wish

> to see and encourage on the the forum so please

> stop it.

>

> I hope you understand.

xxxxxxx

Thank you for making this clear, admin - I saw this thread and didn't want to comment on NatashaD's remark because of the flak I have received on other threads when challenging things people have said - one comment being "why don't you go and join a black forum" (I'm white, btw.).

I am really pleased this remark has been picked up on. Maybe it might make the (hopefully few) people on the forum who don't seem to have much of a clue about the issues involved think a bit?

Right, got that off my chest, back to work now :))

[Jah Lush]

What Admin and Sue said.

I find NatashaD's remarks really offensive. How can she be so ignorant? It's not the first time she's spouted such nonsense. witness her stereotypical homophobic comments on the Gay Bar thread. I wonder if she engages her brain before making any comments on this forum, assuming she has a brain that is.

I find it hard to believe sometimes that there are still such ignorant bigots out there who think it's funny to abuse people in such a racist manner as the comment hurled at Shu.Kurimu.Sensei's wife.

[Loz]

I am really pleased this remark has been picked up on. Maybe it might make the (hopefully few) people on the forum who don't seem to have much of a clue about the issues involved think a bit?

I wouldn't be too pleased with this, Sue. I immediately thought of you when I read the OPs 'are we allowed to say a persons colour in a description on the forum any more?'. As someone who has commented on your postings, it's not been because you have sought to defend against racism/sexism - far from it - it's the rather selective nature of what you defend and what you let pass. In your own words, if your are going to have "a clue about the issues", get all the clues. Or, in feminist terms, it's the difference between Erin Pizzey and Julie Bindel.

But, whoever said "why don't you go and join a black forum" probably needs to be named and shamed.

[NatashaD]

It definitely wasn't me that said 'why don't you go and join a black forum'. I am pleased the OP has been warned about using the word C*nt. As a female I find this term very, very offensive. I am surprised that so many of you have let it pass, preferring to reprimand me. I said that I found the term 'sushi' daft and childish, which it is.

Don't assume I am a white person, incidentally.

[Sue]

Let's not get into a long discussion about this here, very happy to do so if you PM me Loz - yes I have been selective because if I picked up on everything said that I'm unhappy or uneasy about, I would be permanently posting and people would be even more pissed off with me.

:-S

The person who made the remark I quoted doesn't need to be named and shamed because the post is probably still on the forum, so it's there for all to see :-S

EDIT TO SAY: This is in reply to Loz's post, not NatashaD's

[Brendan]

Shu.Kurimu.Sensei, if people say things like that, especially to your wife, you are allowed to punch them. It?s the rules.

And sometimes far more constructive and expedient than a lengthy discussion on the subtle nuances of racial and national stereotyping.

[Sam]

The whole episode is saddening. What is especially depressing is that Shu.Kurimu.Sensei and his wife have endured racism to such a degree that they are not comfortable going out in ED. I recognise that there are idiots everywhere but I would have hoped for better.

[Sue]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Shu.Kurimu.Sensei, if people say things like that,

> especially to your wife, you are allowed to punch

> them. It?s the rules.

>

> And sometimes far more constructive and expedient

> than a lengthy discussion on the subtle nuances of

> racial and national stereotyping.

xxxxxx

:)):)):))

[Jeremy]

I agree that in principle, the "sushi" comment is similar to "rosbif" and "frog". However, the manner in which it is used is much more relevant than the word itself.

These words are usually used in good humour, and such banter is taken in the spirit it was intended. However, if you shout at someone in public, deliberately trying to intimidate/alienate them, then it becomes a different matter... that's what makes it offensive.

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

> These words are usually used in good humour, and

> such banter is taken in the spirit it was

> intended. However, if you shout at someone in

> public, deliberately trying to intimidate/alienate

> them, then it becomes a different matter... that's

> what makes it offensive.

xxxxx

Something is offensive if the recipient is offended, regardless of the intention or whether it is shouted in public.

And regardless of whether the person who said it defended it as "banter".

[SeanMacGabhann]

Exactly right Jeremy - and I had been trying to type a similar sentiment and getting nowhere so cheers!

[SeanMacGabhann]

I think there is a case to be made that people are often too quick to "be offended" these days - but in the incident described there is not a lot of grey area. It was offensive, aggressive and threatening

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

> I think there is a case to be made that people are

> often too quick to "be offended" these days - but

> in the incident described there is not a lot of

> grey area. It was offensive, aggressive and

> threatening

...........Too quick to be offended!!(6)...You wrote 2 minutes ago but "Grey" areas did you not?..Having a pop at us Guys losing our beautiful locks and going a tad Grey is simply NOT ON(6)

Who does one turn to?(6)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Sorry,I was so offended I meant "about" Grey Areas NOT "but" ..

I've calmed down as Trisha is on..:))

[Mark]

NatashaD, you're obviously not so offended by that word that you use it, even after admin has removed it from other posts.

Sorry to hear about the comment directed at you and your partner Shu.Kurimu.Sensei, I hope this thread help brings awareness to people about how others can be offended. Some people will of course say, "ohhhh, you can't say anything these day without offending someone can you?", yes you can, it's about social awareness, some people lack it but hopefully they'll learn.

Except that SeanMacgabbhan of course he's a complete fuck ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Tony - trust me I feel your pain. None more grey than me!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Who am I to argue.... (6)

[Sue]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Exactly right Jeremy - and I had been trying to

> type a similar sentiment and getting nowhere so

> cheers!

xxxx

Sorry Sean but it isn't right, and nor (in the workplace at least) would it be legal.

A defence of "oh but I didn't mean anything by it, it was just good-humoured banter" would not be an acceptable defence at an employment tribunal :-S

Edited to say: Sorry to be heavy, as you know I do have a sense of humour, but I also think this is important .....

[SeanMacGabhann]

We're probably not going to agree on this one Sue..

The priority is to protect people from abuse - but if we just ban things outright then we lose the capacity to be human

Mark's comment about me above is a case in point - it might be true or it might not - but I am able to see the intent behind the words. As someone who was often called Paddy or Mick back in the day when the intent was clearly less than friendly I know too well what motivates some people. But more-enlightened souls were also able to turn that Mick statement on it's head and make it funny. Again - it's the intent - not the word

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tony - trust me I feel your pain. None more grey

> than me!

...No problem Sean just I lost me rag for a moment like.Felt downtrodden and unloved as we Middle-Aged Males("we" being me::o)are repressed at the best of times and I thought you were 'aving a right go.

You're safe,Bruv...

[MelbourneGr]

This kinda crap happens everywhere. It's unfortunate, and it's a small group of people that feel the need to attack someone because they're different.

You shouldn't let something like this dictate what you do, or where you go.

[Sue]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> We're probably not going to agree on this one

> Sue..

>

> The priority is to protect people from abuse -

> but if we just ban things outright then we lose

> the capacity to be human

>

> Mark's comment about me above is a case in point -

> it might be true or it might not - but I am able

> to see the intent behind the words. As someone who

> was often called Paddy or Mick back in the day

> when the intent was clearly less than friendly I

> know too well what motivates some people. But

> more-enlightened souls were also able to turn that

> Mick statement on it's head and make it funny.

> Again - it's the intent - not the word

xxxxxx

Well yes we may have to disagree :)

It isn't the intent that matters, it's how it's perceived by the recipient.

If I'm at work and a guy puts his arm round me, if it was a good friend - for example - that might be fine by me. If it wasn't and I didn't want that attention, that would be harassment, regardless of whether the second guy thought he was "just being friendly".

Just an example. The same action, but OK from one person, not from another.

And the same would go for "insults" or calling people "Mick" (if it's not their name obviously!) or worse.

I agree it's very complex. I also agree that when it's taken to a ridiculous level it clouds the issue of what's acceptable and what's not. The difficulty is in knowing what is a "ridiculous" level, because something that I think is ridiculous may be really important to somebody else.

At the end of the day, it's about being sensitive to other people, isn't it.

[Jeremy]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Exactly right Jeremy - and I had been trying to

> > type a similar sentiment and getting nowhere so

> > cheers!

>

> xxxx

>

> Sorry Sean but it isn't right, and nor (in the

> workplace at least) would it be legal.

>

> A defence of "oh but I didn't mean anything by it,

> it was just good-humoured banter" would not be an

> acceptable defence at an employment tribunal :-S

>

> Edited to say: Sorry to be heavy, as you know I do

> have a sense of humour, but I also think this is

> important .....

I'm not talking about a bloody employment tribunal, I'm talking about real people, in the real world... where people don't pretend that everyone's the same. Where we are *allowed* to describe people by their ethnic group or nationality. Where we can acknowledge and celebrate our differences, and even poke gentle fun at each other in a good natured way... and we know where to draw the line.

You seem to have no perception of where that line is. As soon as someone mentions the word "black" or "asian", you start telling them off. Life isn't an HR department.

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > I'm not talking about a bloody employment

> tribunal, I'm talking about real people, in the

> real world... where people don't pretend that

> everyone's the same. Where we are *allowed* to

> describe people by their ethnic group or

> nationality. Where we can acknowledge and

> celebrate our differences, and even poke gentle

> fun at each other in a good natured way... and we

> know where to draw the line.

>

> You seem to have no perception of where that line

> is. As soon as someone mentions the word "black"

> or "asian", you start telling them off. Life isn't

> an HR department.

xxxxx

Have you actually read anything I've written?

What absolute nonsense!

You seem to have no perception of what I've been talking about at all :)

Of course life's not an HR department - I used the examples I did as - er - examples, but the same principle applies anywhere - if someone is offended by something, then it's offensive, regardless of the intentions of the person saying or doing it.

What exactly do you not understand about that??

:))