Direct Reports, WTF?????????

[MadWorld74]

Asset Wrote:

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> Oh Cripes! I'm gonna be doing this soon. I have

> no idea how to answer questions like that, never

> having had to apply for a job before!

> Are there any courses you can do in application

> form filling? I bet there are.

You've never had to apply for a job before???? Are you of the landed gentry classes and just pretending youre not by living in East Dulwich in a one bed flat or something?

You've never had to apply for a job before?...can you tell me how that's done and how one gets a job/work/earn money without having to actually apply for it? You've obviously got a hidden talent. Please! let me in on it.

[*Bob*]

I've never applied for a job or been to an interview, Madworld.

In fact, I'm proud to say that my only sustained period of PAYE employment (at a parcel distribution warehouse) came to an end, sadly, after just one day. And that was 19 years ago.

[Asset]

MadWorld74 Wrote:

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> Asset Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Oh Cripes! I'm gonna be doing this soon. I

> have

> > no idea how to answer questions like that,

> never

> > having had to apply for a job before!

> > Are there any courses you can do in application

> > form filling? I bet there are.

>

>

> You've never had to apply for a job before???? Are

> you of the landed gentry classes and just

> pretending youre not by living in East Dulwich in

> a one bed flat or something?

>

> You've never had to apply for a job before?...can

> you tell me how that's done and how one gets a

> job/work/earn money without having to actually

> apply for it? You've obviously got a hidden

> talent. Please! let me in on it.

If you really want to know. Daddy bought me a two bedroomed place and I wouldn't say we are landed exactly as the estate only has 50 or so acres.

I've drifted in and out of PR jobs for companies that Daddy's chums own - it's been fab!

Thought I might get real and try and get a proper job now though.

[Huguenot]

S - Specific

M - Measurable

A - Agreed

R - Realistic

T - Time-bound

[macroban]

> Thought I might get real and try and get a proper job now though.

Don't try accountancy - life's too short.

[Michael Palaeologus]

It may be management-bollocks, but of you REALLY want to be a manager, then you need to become fluent and mean it.

Have a look at a website like "Business Balls" and read some of the stuff on staff development, performance management, team building and motivation.

You may have the skills to do the technical aspects of the job; but your role as a Manager will involve you managing other people to do that job, with you coordinating, managing performance and acting as an arbiter and final decision maker in some cases; it is a different role.

The mistake that is is often (always?) made is assuming that the person that excels in the personal performance role will excel in managing a team; they wont, not without some development. They will plough on in their old role (because that is what they feel comfortable doing) and try and fit the management bits around the edges. That wont work. They and their staff will get bitter and cynical - which is what is the major problems of management.

To be successfull in a first management position you need to accept that you are no longer a member of staff, you are now a manager. You have to be willing to discipline people and in extremis, fire them. Of course most of the job of a good manager is positive - setting objectives, developing the team and individuals, monitoring performance and giving positive feedback.

However, managers have to be prepared to pass on messages from senior management to their staff that their staff wont like and will gripe about. The line manager is the first line of management and as such cannot get involved in staff griping; gripe as much as you want to your boss, not to your staff, you arent staff any more, you are management. Thats what you accepted when taking the job and the salary.

Don't take the bad managers you have seen or worked for as role models, you will just end up as a bad manager. Do you want to be a bad manager or would your rather be the manager that you would like to be managed by?

You may well be asked - How would you manage the performance of an under-performing/demotivated member of staff or what about that member of staff that is concistently late or takes too much sick - especially on a Monday or Friday? Be prepared to talk about review meetings, objective setting, developmental support, coaching and mentoring (they are different, know the difference) BUT also be prepared to talk about disciplinary procedures, verbal, written and final warnings, the need to keep accurate records and the need to sack somebody of all else fails.

Management is not just about more money and a bit more responsibility. It is a different perspective. It is that understanding that makes good managers good, the lack of it ensures that bad managers stay bad.

[KalamityKel]

Can I C&P that to my "boss"? Quite clearly he's missing A LOT of management skills...

[macroban]

> It is a different perspective.

Sell a little more of your soul.

[Moos]

Nyyyyyyyesss, MacRoban. But it's much easier to be the guy who just turns up and does his job and can sneer at everything than the guy who tries to make it make sense for others. I don't have a team to manage any more, and it's a real relief! Much harder work than work.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Great post earlier from Mike P, but it was Moo's words above that rang true with me. Amen to them

[macroban]

Been there, done that, too many staff to remember their names, got the t-shirt, sacked the family men, got the guilty conscience.

The different perspective comes when you are retired and approaching death.

[mockney piers]

The problem with most IT Development managers is they can't get to grips with the fact that the whole department is usually cleverer than them, clearer about themselves, their careers, their motivation, and usually the project than they are.

Their value is almost entirely as a metronome to keep everybody on the right track in terms of delivery and as a buffer between them and the whoever keeps promising the moon on a stick to the client/business.

Objective setting, team building, developmental (unless it's cold hard training) and mentoring is only so much meh generally.

Although the performance monitoring and in extremis firing (usually for gross misconduct or industrial espionage) is as relevant as ever.

I should add that in 10 years of IT development I've worked with 2 good managers, half a dozen indifferent ones, and more bad ones than I care to think about.

Oh and biz speak, cuddly or otherwise, makes me want to throttle someone. "take this outside your box, and shove it were the blue sky won't...errr...shine?"

[Brendan]

If you people carry on with all this wank on here I'm leaving the forum.

I'll do it you know.

May as well read the staff intranet or just go have a chat with old fuckcake in charge of wossisname in Strategic Directives.

[SteveT]

Being a manager is being a boss.

Being a boss is a solitary occupation, many find it difficult to work on their own.

You will be self motivated and expect to do all the jobs your staff don't or won't do.

These jobs occur during the hours the staff are relaxing and enjoying themselves.

The room will go quiet when you walk in and you will be excluded from the general camaraderie of the office.

When they are laughing and joking you will be wanting to scream go and work you lazy $%?&"ers, but you will smile and be apologetic for being preoccupied with the million and one tasks outstanding, which should have been completed a month ago.

Good managers are intelligent, can think on their feet, do not mind getting their hands dirty, and are as rare as rocking horse manure.

Best of luck Keef.

[Keef]

God I'm not sure I want this job now... It is in the cuddly voluntary sector though, and it's only a Team Leader (line manager) with a team manager above.

[SteveT]

Give it a go Keef even if you fail miserably you will have grown in the process.

You can always go down the scale, but to climb up you need to use all your wit, guile, and hanging on by your fingernails.

[Keef]

I'd rather just win the lotto and live in a pub :-S

[*Bob*]

Keef Wrote:

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> I'd rather just win the lotto and live in a pub

> :-S

Did you put this on your CV? (Probably under 'other interests')

[Keef]

No, I didn't want to come across as too much of a dreamer, so I just put "I enjoy drinking meths in the park".

[Michael Palaeologus]

"it's only a Team Leader (line manager)". Hmmm, if you want to be a manager, then perhaps you need to reflect on this.

Many managers end up as managers because they have shinned their way up the greasy pole because they think they should and end up in a role they hate, arent any good at and they become deeply cynical - so impacting their staff.

Its a big responsibility if done well. the evidence above is that it generally isnt done well.

Which is where I come in :)) ???

[Moos]

macroban Wrote:

> The different perspective comes when you are

> retired and approaching death.

:-S Heavens.

(Quite literally, or so we all hope)

Keef Wrote:

No, I didn't want to come across as too much of a dreamer, so I just put "I enjoy drinking meths in the park".

Sniggered too loudly at this. Funny man!

[Keef]

Don't appear to have been short listed :(

Bit miffed, as I'm absolutely certain that I would have had at least as much, and more than likely ahell of a lot more knowledge around the client group than anyone else, but I guess they just want bullshitters who they can send on a one day awareness training course.

I am now renewing my long held hatred of this organisation, should have known better than to look to them. Grrr!!!!!!

Anyone know of ANY jobs going, I am so feckin fed up where I am.

[david_carnell]

I'm leaving mine on Friday Keef. Do you want to be a jaded political lobbyist?

[citizenED]

Wanted to say bad luck Keef, but by the sound of it you were better off not getting the job. Good luck with the search.

[HonaloochieB]

Bad luck Keef.

Take comfort in the lyrics of the Mazatollah

"I was looking for a job and then I found a job and heaven knows I'm miserable now'

So it could have been worse.