Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[intexasatthe moment]

Well as you say the admissions policy will be up to the sponsor to determine .

It does worry me that admissions policies are not clear ( as the law requires them to be ) and that detail is not given ,creating a confusing and opaque situation .

Kingsdale holds the prize I think for the least clear policy ,especially for people hoping to get in after the first round of admissions .

Oh well ,we are where we are . Loads of schools all doing there own thing ,determining their own admissions policies ,the LA playing no definitive role - think of all those upheld appeals that challenged The Charter Schools definition of a safe walking distance and the legal challenge had to be mounted by individuals with no support from Southwark .

All with the aim of climbing those league tables .

[chriscampbell]

Coming to all this new, I'm quite interested in what others were saying about the Harris schools having particular methods and ethos... sounds a bit sinister, are there any blogs or posts someone could point me towards?

[TE44]

http://news.tes.co.uk/b/news/2014/02/18/police-look-into-government-39-s-barnfield-college-reports.aspx

james does this bemuse you, Barnfield college college claimed ?1m for pupils theres no record of.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-01-09/kings-science-academy-bradford-fraud-arrest/

James do you know the outcome of the arrest of the head of Bradford free school (link)

Of course I am taking it, your feeling of bemusement stems from a trust in this system which imo

breeds greed, dishonesty and a lack of concern or acknowledgement for ordinary peoples views.

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2014/02/academy-chains-a-scandal-that-needs-to-be-ended/#thecomments

[TE44]

James, I think it would be good to hear from someone on the steering commitee, was it discussed how local people

be kept up to date, apart from consultation. If anyone from this group are reading thin, I would really appreciate

an independent view. The whole sponser query, then james puts up "a useful meeting and we've agreed who to approach",

Seriously after previous views regarding sponsors, and you needed asked to give out this decision.

[TE44]

I presume by james answer that he has asked this thread to be removed as a sticky. He says "we're very near to our target now, apart from the odd bit of news it will be several months before a public consultation."

Theres a bit more about following on twitter, facebook.

And

"It also helps to move the campaign beyond being seen as run soley by lib dems"

Can anyone remind me james views on transparency, how the council were/weren't persuaded by him.

What part will the steering group have on decisions.

Who knows,

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

I think we've gone through these questions before.

The free school process means any group can make an application to open a new school. The Dept for Education to grant an application would want to see sufficient demand for places, confidence that the applicant has thought it through and has the ability to make a successful school happen. It's a big undertaking creating a new school. We've recently seen more evidence of just how challenging this can be with a northern chain getting into difficulties with a few of its schools. We also regularly see Ofsted discover long standing schools not working well and going into special measures. We've had this happen a number of times locally over the years. Fortunately this is beaching rarer and rarer.

This particular campaign isn't proposing to make the whole thing happen ourselves. We're looking to obtain enough support. We've just reached an important landmark of support to make any application possible. But instead we're looking to hand over this project to the school provider we feel best suits parental needs and community needs.

So the steering group will decide the provider they wish to see provide a school locally.

At the launch of this campaign I made it clear I was only working for a co ed non faith school and the steering group have reconfirmed that.

I hope this answers your questions TE44.

[bawdy-nan]

Great news that the target's been reached and thank you to the steering group for taking this on.

[simonethebeaver]

Hurray for the target. I am on the steering group and I can confirm that it is formed of a collection of parents from a wide variety of local primary schools, and is not politically driven in any way. Material that has been branded Liberal Democrat, for whatever reason, is being superseded by non-partisan versions, at the steering group's request. The Twitter and Facebook accounts have never been linked to a political party.

James has done really well to push this forward, and the steering group is extremely grateful. As can be seen by the numbers, there is a genuine strong demand for an extra school in East Dulwich. Let's hope we can make this happen.

[intexasatthe moment]

Simone I don't know what role the steering group has ,would be interesting to know what it considers it's remit to be .

Is that something you could tell us ?

Would members for example need to have some familarity with the Admissions Code or would this not be considered to be necessary on the basis that the sponsor would act in accordance with it ?

[simonethebeaver]

The steering group has taken two roles. First, to spread the news about the campaign - many local primaries have had leaflets and posters distributed, with the agreement of headteachers and governors. We've set up a Twitter and Facebook account. Second, we discussed potential providers, agreed which to approach, and made it clear that this is a parent-driven project. We have approached strong providers with a proven record and we're confident that, should this go ahead, local parents will be pleased. We have not spoken to the Harris Federation. We're still in negotiations but would hope to hand the bid over to the provider to carry forward, retaining a role in providing local input. The provider will have expertise in every area. In discussing who to approach, we considered existing schools and their facilities and policies, and our aim was to ensure we could find someone to provide a co-ed, non-faith, non-selective school for children in the local community. We also bore in mind views expressed on here and discussions with other parents.

[redjam]

Hooray, I am so pleased this is moving forward. And credit where it's due - well done James for leading this and for the steering committee members who are giving up their time and expertise to help it reach the next step. There's been a lot of tough questioning going on this thread, which is all well and good, but I think it's also important to make the point that many of us parents are just very grateful someone is taking up this issue. Thank you all, and let's hope we get the outcome we want.

[DuncanW]

Agreed! I think we need a degree of pragmatism here. Let's move forward with the best of the available options.

There's so much discussion about choice and entrance criteria which is all valid, but the critical issue here is that currently there aren't enough places available.

redjam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hooray, I am so pleased this is moving forward.

> And credit where it's due - well done James for

> leading this and for the steering committee

> members who are giving up their time and expertise

> to help it reach the next step. There's been a lot

> of tough questioning going on this thread, which

> is all well and good, but I think it's also

> important to make the point that many of us

> parents are just very grateful someone is taking

> up this issue. Thank you all, and let's hope we

> get the outcome we want.

[Coach Beth]

Yes, in an ideal world we would not have free schools and the system would be managed by the local authority who would provide good, co-ed, non-faith secondary education for all. But that is not the world we live in. And the worries about what would happen when our current year 4 children (who were the first year to experience buldge classes) got to secondary school has been relieved somewhat. I think most of us just want a good, all round local comprehensive secondary school that our children can walk or bike to.

[James Barber]

Hi Coach Beth,

Yes and no.

Lots of councils are not good educational providers. Should they be allowed to establish poor schools giving children poor education? I would suggest not until they reach an agreed standard with the schools they run.

Tony Blair's Labour government was so exasperated with how badly Labour Southwark Council ran our schools that they stripped Education away in 2000 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/nov/22/schools.schoolprivatisation

It was several years later under a very different political leadership that it was returned and has since flourished under Lib Dems and more recently Labour administration.

Equally some authorities are good and should be treated more maturely and allowed to open new schools.

Sadly the bad councils and history means central governments haven't and don't trust councils.

[intexasatthe moment]

Do remind me James who initially replaced Southwark ? Some building firm wasn't it ? And how did they do ?

Thank goodness the Lib Dems saved us .

All such short term plans and views .

Like now ,people are so anxious for a secondary school ( to serve local children ) that they'll pass over the small print of the provision in the name of " pragmatism " . But if the details aren't right 10 years down the line there will be more problems .

So many people are anxious not to have another Harris school one wonders how we ended up with so many .

Oh yes ,politics and spin . I bet that helped .

[redjam]

Oh dear, James, I write a nice thank-you post to try to get the thread back focusing on the positive aspects of the new school, and you go and spoil it all by political point-scoring and dragging us back into an argument about the merits or otherwise of free schools. Argh!

I honestly don't give a hoot about the history of whose fault it was that we're in this mess; I just want whoever is in charge now to try to fix this problem. And yes, perhaps that is short-term thinking, ITATM, but we need a short-term solution for the kids who are coming up through the system now.

I'm all in favour of pragmatism over political point-scoring, myself.

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

That was why I linked to a critical Guardian article. The contractors brought in were Atkins who don't just do building and then Cambridge Associates.

Harris must be doing something right to be heavully over subscribed and have nearly all outstanding schools.

Hi redjam,

Ditto about pragmatism.

The assumption all local authorities are great educational providers is at best na?ve, and at worst political dogma, and annoyred me. Apologies for reacting with our own example.

I've recently wondered about the US approahc to get people voting about education of educational boards.

And yes we either have new free school academies or no new schools. Been this way since 2006.

[Chocky]

If you believe that local authorities should be given back the power to open new schools and you want a good quality school place for all our children, please support this campaign...

http://www.theschoolplacescrisis.com/

[James Barber]

Hi Chocky,

What a useful campaign by the National Union of Teachers.

I wonder why the NUT don't sponsor some free schools. They clearly have lots of expertise.

Councils can open new schools. But the process is painful, not as painful as it was but still painful, and they have to do it almost as a last resort. So making it easier would be good but only for those councils proven to provide great schools. Blanket change allowing hopeless councils to do it wouldn't be good for local children.

If the petition had some caveat along those lines I'd sign and be promoting it.

[TE44]

James can this still be done by using the loclism act, and how and why has this been made easier.

In relation to your link about WS Atkins, Nick Stanton refused to answer public questions regarding Steve Davies,and when central goverment were asked, there reply was to take it up with your local mp.As you've said before on this

issue the past is in the past, but you use it now as redjam says for political point scoriing.

I thought it was corrupt at the time, any ordinary person being involved in a scam, as this was, would be facing a judge. People who are elected by the public should remember they represent the people.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

That had crossed y mind with the Localism act but it would add delay.

One method that is now available is to expand an existing school onto a different site a la proposals around Ivydale. But the council has to fins all the money to do this. Which for a primary school if you already have land is around ?5M for the buildings.Or around ?500 for every home in the borough.

Free schools are free for the local council but the cost is no control over them.

As for Nick Santon and Steve Davies. I suspect Nick was trying to ensure Southwark Council was rid of such educational contractors running Southwark education ASAP. He was remarkably successful in persuading the Labour government to remove them and hand back Southwakr education to the administration led by Nick.

[TE44]

http://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16761%3Amind-the-gap&catid=59%3Agovernance-a-risk-articles&q=&Itemid=27

james link above looking at localism act, the thread I put up previously on this thread regarding solicitors for councils taking bak control of local schools, may have came about through this act. Cant look at responses from councils at the moment.

James in regards to WS Atkins,I would argue the point about Nick Stantons part in it, but I'm not interested, it was a long time ago.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/10967084.Council_made__fundamental_mistakes__with_the_management_of_William_Penn_project/

Above is a more recent account of council dealings with this company.

You will find if you look at the directors of this company they are not removed

[TE44]

Sorry, phone playin up,As I was saying james, lookin at this company does not give me any faith in the privitisation

of our schools. I can spend all day posting links about this company, the monopoly that was grown regardless of mistakes but I neither have the time or the energy,

http://www.atkinsglobal.com/investor-relations/financial-news/2013/2013-11-19

Here's one I worry about thoughh (link above)

I apoligise to parents for what may seem off topic, but my children were in school when this corruption

was going on, And very much like today, parents did not have a voice and could not get answers

from either local or central goverment, when this agreement fell apart.

We are now seeing monopolies of academy trusts, I look at a company that should have been held to account

but instead I've seen a company that has grown over the years, but still momopolising business.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

Well hopefully you'll be pleased that two of the steering group and mysefl met the coumncil leader, cabinet member fo children's services and 3 council directors to discuss what we're proposing, our preferred provider and seek their at worst tacit agreement.

The council leader Peter John was also very supportive of our propsed new school. He agreed it was unrealistic of the council to expect Dulwich children to accept any spare places anywhere in the borough. This is huge breakthrough as it was only in November/December that the council clearly expressed the opposite views.

So we nearly have cross party support with council involvement.

[TE44]

James, I'd be more pleased to know, which cabinet member, which 3 council members and of course which provider.

You said you prefer an application to be supported by the council, regardless of it having no

impact on the decision, I think its good cross parties can reach agreement on decisions, but in the small time

local authority are involved I think its reasonable to be given names of people who are speaking for us, so we can follow this process.