Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[TE44]

James As I am speaking about what is happening now it is this goverment I am refering to. I am fully aware of

labours part in privatisation of our education. Can you tell me how many people emailed you wanting to be in

the steering committee, I take it, all parents who are interested will be invited to first meeting, will this be a public meeting,and any idea when.

[mamafeelgood]

James contacted myself, but sadly I can't make the meeting. Does that help?

Personally, I hear all the Harris or free school discussions and agree that we have to keep asking questions. However, I'd also like to thanks James for acting on this issue and trust that people will get behind this campaign because we definitely need a secondary school.

[intexasatthe moment]

James , I'm sure you have more experience of decision making on this scale than i do - what would your suggestions be as to how the steering group come to a decision ?

[TE44]

James, you said you would hope to persuade southwark council, persuade them another school is needed? is there

a certain criteria needed before local council can submit an application? I have read a number of local councils have opposed free schools but decision was still madeto open free school. I am also finding it difficult

to find any written replies to public consultation. Will the meetings,updates of each stage be in the public domain?

I!m interesred in the procces of deciding on provider. Will you let us know james.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

I find it hard to bleieve you don't understand the process. Parents club together and either directly or via an existing provider apply to open a free school. If they meet the criteria applivcation is approved, a site is found a school opens. Consultations happen withoin that but if sufficient families back a proposed school essentially it will happen.

but I would prefer any application to be supported by Southwark Council. They plan secondary school places on a borough wide basis. They're planning to open another secondary school on the Aylesbury estate and expect Dulwich children who don't obtain local places to travel to that school and others that have recently been offered in Catford, New Cross and Walworth.

It's like primary school admissions. When my party ran the council we had a policy of aiming to offer primary school places within one mile to encourage walking to school, play dates etc. The legal maximum was 2 miles though.

So I hope to persuade the council that providing secondary places any where in the borough while technically fulfilling their duties practically doesnt really. Parents have told us that where they live without another secondary school in our area they will have to move away from the area rather than bus their kids many miles to schools in areas they have no connection with.

But as you say whether a free school happens or not isnt down to local councils many of whom philisophically oppose free schools preferring to maintian the status quo at the expense of local families.

[TE44]

http://markmelaney.wordpress.com/tag/dfe/

Thanks james, I'm surprised you don't believe I don't understand the proccess, link above shows I'm not the

only one. This may have been discussed before, but I was interested what part in the application local goverment

play.The fact the goverment refuse to hand over information, does not help parents understand especially when free

schools will be at the expense of local families, Will the minutes of meetings be available to the public.

James are you philisophicly opposed to free schools, I apoligise if this has already been covered but I believe many

parents whos children attend free schools would prefer local in put, as link below shows.

http://labourwestminster.wordpress.com/2014/02/02/westminster-parents-call-for-better-free-school-regulation/

If you cannot persuade the council can parents continue in the application regardles of council opposition, will

you be attending the meeting with any suggestions to who the provider may be. I would

like to understand just what part if any local council play on this

application procces.

[TE44]

http://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16298%3Ahb-public-law-teams-up-with-bevan-brittan-to-form-first-local-authority-abs&catid=51&Itemid=11

james, can you tell me Southwark Councils views on local authoriy owned alternative business structures (abs)

Hugh Peart, Director of Law and Governance at Harrow Council and Director of HBPL, told?Local Government Lawyer?that the establishment of an ABS was in response to the extensive outsourcing being undertaken by local authorities, whether as a way of meeting their budget targets or for political or other reasons.

He pointed out that Harrow?s library services were now being run by John Laing Integrated Services, but the shared legal team cannot act for John Laing.

http://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16738%3Acounty-council-and-fire-authority-join-forces-to-set-up-abs&catid=1%3Alatest-stories&Itemid=31

[TE44]

http://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13000%3Asra-to-relax-restrictions-on-local-authority-lawyers-charging-charities&catid=51%3Amanagement-articles&Itemid=11

more recent.

James can you please give your views on this issue and any views known by your colleagues.

My worry here is changes in law are not being explained to parents, I realise there has been consultations

on this procedure but cannot find any responses. I would appreciate your view.

[bawdy-nan]

TE44 - you seem very agitated by this. I understand that there are wide ranging concerns about "free schools" (some of which I share). But, and perhaps I am being naive, it seems to be that in this instance the intention is to try and have a new secondary school established locally and the quickest and easiest mechanism to do this is via the free school route.

I'm not sure what relevance the links you post have. Very happy to hear why they are important in this instance.

As I understand it the process of setting up a free school involves demonstrating need and desire locally and then establishing it, either directly, or in partnership with an organisation already involved in education. So, locally, there are new schools being set up, or already set up, as free schools (Judith Kerr, or the new Harris primaries, or the school being established by Dulwich Hamlet Academy).

AS far as I understand it, and I haven't studied this is depth so I may be wrong, the steering group of parents being set up by James will be made up of people who want the school and who are willing to put the time and effort in to securing it. I want the new school and would like it to be co-ed etc but I can't commit the time and energy to organise this. I'll support the process and am very grateful to those who will set it up and to James for curating the process.

Ideally, I'd like a local authority school but I can't see how that can happen.

[Shuggy]

TE44 - sorry but I'm not quite clear what your objections are with this specific school project.

If your concerns are with the general outsourcing of public services, then I share them. I'd like the LA to run all schools in the borough -- but the reality is that they run none.

There are children currently in year 4 and below in ED primaries who will not be given places at local secondary schools when they reach year 7. So we as parents of those children, are faced with the prospect of bussing our kids to Walworth or Catford or leaving our community altogether. I for one don't want to do either of those things. So there is an obvious need for a new secondary in the area and we are trying to demonstrate this to the LA and hopefully receive their backing in opening a Free school. As I understand it the prospective parents led by the steering committee (also parents) will choose a third party provider to run the school (as is the case with all Southwark schools). I also understand that this process will be as transparent as possible. But the steering committee has not even met yet-- this is simply at the gauging support stage. This is not about a school that has been taken from the LA and handed over to creationists or a project of ideologically-driven parents or politicians forcing in a provider no one wants.

Of course we have to be vigilant to all these things, but this is about need and then choosing the best provider to meet the need for a brilliant, non-faith, COED secondary school with admission based on catchment.

[bawdy-nan]

hear hear Shuggy

[TE44]

bawdy-nan I'm more confused than agitated. after having academies imposed upon us with consultations not listened to, threats and schools not giving any help regardless of being previously outstanding, it now appears, legally, albeit through privatisation, local council can be involved. I think all options available should be looked at, I realize for some people there is no need to distrust or become resigned to the fact it is an ideological dream, or it's not going to happen, when clearly it can although not as before.

Shuggy I hope you are right in regards to transparency. I think it is important news when the first case of a council

moving back to being involved with schools again, whether this was brought about independently from local council solicitors I assume local council are aware of this. I would assume this would have came up for discussions with the public, especially in regard to parents who will it seems have a say in the provider. My concerns are not particularly

with this school, my worry is, although all secondary schools in Southwark are no longer run by local authorities, I

do not look forward to primaries converting to academy status.

[intexasatthe moment]

Those parents who are concerned about the prospect of their children travelling to far away places like Catford ,Westminster etc and are looking for a local school that caters for local children need to think about the admissions policy of the " provider " . And they need to think about the implications of schools next to eachother having different admissions policies . If one school always ensures that their pupils' abilities reflect the national average and ensure that every intake includes a number of the brightest children in the borough then their results should always achieve at least the equivalent of other schools . And to have a head start in climbing those league tables and likely to climb higher than a school whose admissions policy means that they draw from a small geographical area .

Such issues are what you get from a fragmented education system run by various " providers " for whom competition has become an overriding feature .

Harris schools who have a banding system can take pupils from far and wide to fill their school with cohorts that reflect the national average range of abilities . The 63 bus I was on the other day had many Harris boys travelling well past the Elephant , a distance which it seems many parents regard as unacceptable for their children to travel .

So if you want a local school taking it's pupils from the immediate geographical area then you might want to think not only about which " provider " you are opting for but the admissions policy they operate . And also whether you mind if that policy has the potential to detrimentally affect the schools position in the league tables .

And the trend for Academies to develop all through schooling from primary age also gives pause for thought . How long before primary school age children are travelling on buses to schools where the " provider " wants to ensure an intake that will give them a head start in the league tables ?

Obvious stuff I know and I'm probably teaching grandmothers to suck eggs . So apologies if I'm labouring stuff that goes without saying .

[Belle]

Don't we already have schools close to each other with different admissions policies? Charter is on proximity isn't it, whilst Kingsdale is a lottery system as I understand it, and yes Harris on the banding you describe.

[bornagain]

Thanks intexas for pointing out the intricacies of admissions policies. I don't think it is obvious necessarily as we tend to assume that when we compare schools we are comparing like with like.

Charter is on safe walking distance. Kingsdale is a lottery but also use a banding system to reflect 'the full range of ability'. They also allocate 15% of their intake to various scholarships.

This is why the value-added statistics are more useful than raw results.

[intexasatthe moment]

Yes good points .

I think Kingsdale especially were clever in fine tuning their admissions policy to overcome their geographical position . And also by the confusing scholarship system .

Perhaps it's a good thing that individual schools can tailor their admissions to cope with the specific circumstances of the school . Though I feel the competition between schools is more harmful - leading to ever more creative ways to manipulate the system so that statistics look good - than good .

[James Barber]

Yesterday afternoon the first steering group met - many thanks to the dozen people now involved.

A useful meeting and we've agreed who to approach.

[TE44]

Are you going to say who is being approached James? Was this meeting only for the steering group or were all parents that gave support welcome, have they been informed the provider agreed on.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

The first meeting was at my house so couldn't make it a public meeting - so only this who had expressed an interest in being on steering group invited were invited to the inaugural steering group meeting.

The meeting agreed we would approach Prendergast and Haberdashers federations and agree a criteria. All parents who have expressed support were sent an email today covering all this and some more details.

[intexasatthe moment]

James ,bearing in mind that a new school is funded by all taxpayers and is for the whole community ( and future community ) I'm interested to know what mechanisms will be used by the steering group to take the interests of that community into account .

Can you advise ?

[DenmotherSmith]

I have been receiving the steering group emails ( I have a child in year 4) it looks great and very exciting that a new secondary school, with local community involved, might happen in time for my son. But then I look at the previous experience of Charter with its tiny catchment and the huge prices of houses close to it, and the willingness of so many to 'bend' the rules by, divorcing or renting or whatever else to get a place and I just get a sinking feeling that this new school will go the same way. The only chance this school can be really a local school is if it has a lottery admission within a set radius of maybe 2 miles. Then EVERY local child has a shot, not just those whose parents are wealthy or cunning enough to play the system. I also have much older kids and was involved in the EDEN project and saw local parents short changed. I don't know what Charter's furtherest distance was this year but doubt it was much over 800m. If a new school goes the same way (and any successful well run school will) anyone around Heber or Goodrich, let alone Nunhead won't stand a chance.

Agree with previous posters that admissions is key and should be decided at the earliest point possible in the process, that way local parents can determine if the school will be something they can support because their children actually have a chance of attending.

[James Barber]

Sure. The free school process has public consultation built into it I believe it also has to consult with nearby school.

One problem I hadn't appreciated was that local primary schools see some shrinkage of year 5 and 6 classes as families leave the area to find secondary school place those families will find acceptable.

[James Barber]

Hi Denmothersmith,

I think someone said The Charter School furthest distance was 1.4km.

[DenmotherSmith]

Thanks for that info James,If I apply that distance to the postcode of dulwich hospital than that still leaves Nunhead (where I live) way out in the cold!

I really feel that admissions is key to fairness,so when in the process will that be decided? Is it decided by the partner or steering group or public consultation?

Thanks

[intexasatthe moment]

Totally agree with your posts DenmotherSmith ,especially re parents cheating to get into a school . A lotterry within a limited geograpgical area wpould overcome this .

Will be interesting to learn more about how the admissions policy is determined .