Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[281102]

I support the proposal. Not if it is another Harris school though.

[Guest]

Dear James

Looks like chicken and egg to me. You say: "Holding a public meeting when we don't yet have sufficient support for a new school is putting the cart before the horse. WE also don't have the details that most people attending a public meeting would want". Surely a public meeting would allow for a genuine discussion about the type of provision parents want to see in this area? How can you proceed before you have engaged oepnly in that debate? Personally, I should like the Local Authority to be considered as a 'provider' which, contrary to what you suggest, is entirely possible, but that doesn't seem to be anywhere on your agenda. You won't hold a public meeting until you get 'sufficient support' yet you're not getting support because you won't answer the questions which might be raised at such a meeting. If you want people to take you on trust you're going to have to commit more than you're currently prepared to. Is there something you don't want us to know until after we've given you the support to go ahead? Call a meeting and then you'll find out if the support is there. Parents are clearly concerned and surely the forum isn't really the place to engage in a genuinely public debate about the nature of any potential new provision?

[Belle]

Wasn't James just trying to see if there's an appetite first, because it is chicken & egg - without proof of a demand, it'll be hard to get providers to show interest? Everyone is concerned about the lack of provision in this area, I saw this as just a show of hands at this stage, obviously with the chance to withold support if the provider then turns out to be someone we as individuals don't agree with.

[Shuggy]

Dear Marguerita, I expect that we will have many public meetings but at this stage I think this is a fine place to get a sample at least of some of the issues people may have. As you are a local parent I'm glad you decided to join the forum last night to make your points. I share many of the concerns that both you and Cubanbreeze raise, but I am flummoxed as to why you both seem to think this is about James Barber being "a man on a mission" to stitch us up with a school from a provider we don't want in an area that we don't want. Does he really have that much power?

There is a shortage of state, co-ed school places in our community and we need to do something about it. Calling for a show of support for a new school seems to me like the correct first step in addressing this.

[redjam]

Agreed, Belle. Surely we should be supporting the fact that James is raising the issue that a school is needed before we start giving him a hard time about the choice of provider? And clearly he needs to prove the demand is there before he can start on the next step. It seems pretty straightforward to me and I, for one, am delighted he's starting the ball rolling with it.

Yes, a public meeting would be useful down the line but it's still early days yet. And with 1500 views in a week on the forum, this is a pretty good way of engaging the wider community (you wouldn't get 1500 people turning up to a public meeting!).

[redjam]

Cross-posted with Shuggy but agree with you too!

[DuncanW]

@ James thank you for answering my question re: compulsory purchase of other sites. I didn't have a specific site in mind in ED but within the wider area, there would be contenders one would imagine. But if it's available land, then the hospital site must be the only option.

On a separate note, not all parents in the area are anti Harris Federation. I am certainly not, although I do share the view that as the Academy/Free School model is designed to introduce competition and choice, to allow one provider a monopoly position would seem unwise. But Harris are successful for a very good reason, and some people must have very short memories or be new to the area (which is fine) if they can't see that.

[bawdy-nan]

Duncan, I'm wondering if you have visited a Harris School? It's a very particular offer (strong discipline, over-riding emphasis on enterprise) not awful by any means and when I went I saw much to admire but it's quite different from other schools as good, if not better, at achieving "success" if by success you mean exam results. Maybe you don't mean that. I notice also that the Academy at Peckham still hasn't risen above "requires improvement". (Edited to say this is a mistake and the report I saw was for the Harris Primary in Peckham. As someone points out below the secondary is rated "good". My mistake and I apologise for it)

As for the improvement to local schools in recent years - that's true and a London wide phenomenon which might be put down to "the London Challenge". At least, so says Michael Wilshaw the Head of OFSTED. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21534863.

[intexasatthe moment]

Well said bawdy-nan .

[*CGPC*]

Unless there are 2 Harris Academy Peckhams, it's rated 'good' by Ofsted with 'outstanding' capacity for improvement. Absolutely no axe to grind, have just been doing a lot of research on the academy chains recently and that didn't sound right to me, so checked on the Ofsted site: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/134225

[bawdy-nan]

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/filedownloading/?id=2175707&type=1 is the "requires improvement" report for the academy at peckham (Harris) whereas the Harris girls school on peckham rye is judged "outstanding". http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/filedownloading/?id=1958785&type=1&refer=0

Cgcp - unless I've made a mistake the report you limknto is from 2011 ...

Edit: no, you're right I had found the Harris primary academy - my apologies

[Houseoflego]

Would Harris becoming co-ed with the boys school becoming a sixth form make the Harris schools more appealing?

[DuncanW]

Bawdy Man, my kids are reception class and pre-school age so although I have been inside a Harris school the context was not especially relevant here. And, yes I do mean exam results when I say success, that and Ofsted reports. I appreciate that's not the be-all and end-all, but some of the schools Harris run were failing miserably to deliver results and they have turned them around. EG In 2008 Harris Girls achieved 42% gaining 5 or more A-C grades at GCSE inc Maths and English and was graded 3 in its Ofsted report. In 2012 it was graded 1 (outstanding) and 64% getting the GCSE grades. I think that is a commendable achievement and a real and tangible difference made to the lives of the girls who left there with much brighter futures than they old have in days of old.

[intexasatthe moment]

Duncan you do realise that it's not a level playing field when it comes to comparing Academies etc with old style maintained schools ?

That the former received more money from central government ?

[intexasatthe moment]

This https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/244364/school_funding_reform_-_final_2013-14_arrangements.pdf is an interesting read .

paragraphs 68 and 72 for instance refer to the differences and lack of transparency in the funding arrangements for maintained schools and Academies .

I realise that getting more funding (though less recently than they did in the past ) will to some people make Harris Academies a no brainer of a choice for their children . But there is often the idea that sponsors shovelled in lots of their own money into Academies ,and the fact that they received more funding than maintained schools ignored and not taken into account .

[DuncanW]

I'm not familiar with the funding arrangements, but if they do receive additional money,it would appear to me they have spent it well.

[bawdy-nan]

DuncanW - I agree with you - they do seem to be getting good results and, as I said in my post, when I visited I saw much to admire BUT the ethos and attitude towards education is a very particular one and I think that adding yet another Harris to the local mix would diminish the range of educational approaches on offer.

[DuncanW]

I agree - a choice of providers would be preferable, if that's an option...

[James Barber]

Yes Academies do get more per pupil than schools reporting directly to local authorities.

But that is largely related to the academy schools not being provided support services by the LA's. LA's get a large pot of money and hold not insignificant amounts back for their funding of supervising education and providing services.

Huge variation around the country how much value schools find those LA provided services. Some LA's are now marketing those services to academies very successfully.

[intexasatthe moment]

James I'm sure you know as well as I do that that's not the extent of additional funding that Academies receive .

Start up funding for instance ?

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

Yes, they receive some money to set-up as academies. Also negotiating asset transfers from LA's can be complicated.

Regards james.

[ZoeG]

Yes would support - as long as it is not Harris!

[katgod]

agree we need a new school, but not if it is another Harris.

[James Barber]

Facinating if unsurprising article on the BBS News website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25415231#story_continues_2

In essence 32% of parents with a profession have moved to an area they consider to have a good school.

Many of those responding, I havent tabulated them yet, have said they are planning to move out of the area for good senior schools. Also had feedback from others saying the same about primary schools.

[hellosailor]

DuncanW Wrote:

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But Harris

> are successful for a very good reason, and some

> people must have very short memories or be new to

> the area (which is fine) if they can't see that.

One of the reasons is that they get a new head in, and they immediately permanently exclude (expel) the children who are not doing at all well academically, which makes their results look better without any actual change having happened.

Not another one in our area please.