Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[LondonMix]

James, I would very much appreciate a detailed response to all of the questions raised below.

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So what powers do Nicky Morgan and Lord Nash have

> exactly and why is there a difference of opinion

> about the right contact person.

> More to the point, who within the EFA establishes

> the appropriateness of land acquisitions for free

> schools? What exactly is considered and which

> parties concerns are taken into consideration?

>

> ? The school?s preferences (ie. Harris)

> ? Is the LA consulted?

> ? Other proposed free schools that may need to the

> site

> ? The local communities preference when competing

> schools both want a site

>

> Also, who (Nicky Morgan or Lord Nash or someone

> else) has the ability to over-rule a decision made

> by the EFA in consideration of any / all of the

> above?

>

> Gove?s letter suggested that as the Dulwich

> secondary was not yet approved, it wasn?t possible

> for the EFA to consider reserving the land for it.

> Are there any actual guidelines? Right now, I?m

> concerned that prior to the secondary school

> applications for Charter and Habs being submitted,

> the EFA will acquire the site for Harris and it

> will be a fait-accompli. There of course will be

> finger pointing and everyone stating it wasn?t

> their preference but without any real transparency

> about the process its difficult to understand what

> the best course of action really is to preserve

> the interests of the community.

[intexasatthe moment]

Sorry LondonMix - I blame the heat !

I'd love to hear answers to your questions too but I fear ( and honestly no disrespect ) that this is asking too much of a local councillor who I imagine also has a full time job .

I very much doubt that you'd get a straight answer from Nash himself . Particularly from Nash himself .

[parentsteeringgroup]

London Mix

Thanks for summarising some very pertinent points regarding the mechanics of the planning process, the hospital site and the role of EFA. You are also right to point out that there has been plenty of heat created about the site but not much illumination!

For our part, as the grass roots involved in this process, we have worked with our applicant (Habs) to understand the process going forward. Based on their experience of the free schools process and working with the EFA, they have given us guidance on what the EFA looks for, how the EFA works and what needs to happen and when it is likely etc.

We have used this guidance to then make the broader community case for a school on the site and for that school to have all the surplus land the NHS has indicated it will dispose of. Since May we have had a rolling consultation, now via the Habs website, that includes questions about the site and the space needed for all the facilities for an excellent school. We don't think we should compromise on the amount of space for the new school and the more local people that support that, the stronger our chances of convincing the EFA. Who then have to work with the NHS to realise it.

If only it were that simple, there are lots of stakeholders that have statutory roles with regards to major development sites at borough level and beyond. SPGs are written as frameworks and revised periodically, circumstances change and we trust that the planning process can and will respond to these circumstances, but we often have to make a lot of noise beforehand. The Council has stated its strong commitment to a secondary school on that site. At the Southwark Cabinet meeting this week, when they discussed the Schools Places Strategy Update, we made a deputation to make our local case, and in response they clearly stated they were working hard to "unlock the site for a secondary school." We will post the minutes of the Cabinet meeting when they are available in full.

As a result of that, the steering group has asked pretty much the same questions as you London Mix, when we get clarity on it, we will, as we have always done let our supporters know what we need to do next.

The immediate next steps though are to convince the DfE that the pressing urgent need is for a secondary school for the site, and not let a preceding primary school bid undermine that in any way. Once we have done that then we must let the DfE consider and select the best bid that can deliver a secondary school to meet that pressing need in ED. Once a secondary school has been approved the successful applicant will work with the EFA, the NHS and LBS to make it happen.

We as grass roots and parents must keep on making the case, by focusing on what unifies us all, which is another much needed excellent local secondary school for local children.

[intexasatthe moment]

I'm not saying this with any pleasure but with Nash and Harris both sharing political views, venture capitalist backgrounds and experience of all through schools I fear that Harris may yet to come out of this smiling .

[LondonMix]

Thank you steering group.

I imagine Habs (having done this multiple times) should be in a good place to help answer these questions.

I do hope there is an official policy answer to the questions raised. Right not, it feels like a free for all that allows the most politically connected institutions push their agenda ahead without any official process for the community and the local authority to make important objections.

I very much appreciate your consistent efforts to get the best outcome for the local community and all the hardwork that goes with that.

[hpsaucey]

Hi James - a naiive question perhaps but what's Southwark's stance/policy on building more housing in an area when there's already a shortage of infrastructure services in the vicinity - i.e. school places etc.

Cheers

HP

[James Barber]

Hi LondonMix,

If you still feel any questions unanswered please let me know and I'll endeavour to answer at the weekend.

Hi hopsaucey,

When I took two parents from the steering group to meet the council leader, at the start of March, to try and gain the council's support for our new secondary school, Cllr Peter John was clear he thought we could have health facilities, a new secodnary school and housing. He suggested our new school could go up needing less land. This really stuck in my mind. It has caused many other conversations with archtiects, sterring groups, etc. this new free school project has been my main councillor focus for a year now. Peter doesnt recall this element of the meeting but then he has the whole council to focus on. If Peter was correct then a few hundred extra homes would mean the primary and secondary place forecasts let alone all the other services would be under egging things.

I hope which ever applciation wins gets to use 2/3rds of the site - ie. all the sapce after the new health facilities.

[LondonMix]

Also, I'd prefer almost any other option besides Hatcham for the school's name as its an oxymoron.

Perhpas this can be put to a vote and officially changed before its too late?!

[LondonMix]

James, none of the questions have been answered-- the steering committe simply have stated they have the same questions as me.

As someone who has been through the process several times with other schools, I believe you should know how the EFA makes its determiniation, what points are officially considered and what powers Lord Nash and Nicky Morgan have to intervene.

I hope these should be fairly simple and straightforward to answer.

[hpsaucey]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi LondonMix,

> If you still feel any questions unanswered please

> let me know and I'll endeavour to answer at the

> weekend.

>

> Hi hopsaucey,

> When I took two parents from the steering group to

> meet the council leader, at the start of March, to

> try and gain the council's support for our new

> secondary school, Cllr Peter John was clear he

> thought we could have health facilities, a new

> secodnary school and housing. He suggested our new

> school could go up needing less land. This really

> stuck in my mind. It has caused many other

> conversations with archtiects, sterring groups,

> etc. this new free school project has been my main

> councillor focus for a year now. Peter doesnt

> recall this element of the meeting but then he has

> the whole council to focus on. If Peter was

> correct then a few hundred extra homes would mean

> the primary and secondary place forecasts let

> alone all the other services would be under egging

> things.

> I hope which ever applciation wins gets to use

> 2/3rds of the site - ie. all the sapce after the

> new health facilities.

Thanks James. The vagaries of lcoal planning. Off topic - but it reminds me of the situation we're traditionally in in this country in which most fire stations, hospitals etc. are built on flood plans! Some day common sense and jouiend up thinking will prevail!

[James Barber]

Lord Nash is in charge of new free schools. So they're the decision maker not Nicky morgan MP.

The New Schools Network is here: http://www.newschoolsnetwork.org/set-up-a-school/free-schools-101

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James, none of the questions have been answered--

> the steering committe simply have stated they have

> the same questions as me.

>

> As someone who has been through the process

> several times with other schools, I believe you

> should know how the EFA makes its determiniation,

> what points are officially considered and what

> powers Lord Nash and Nicky Morgan have to

> intervene.

>

> I hope these should be fairly simple and

> straightforward to answer.

[Otta]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> " So what exactly do you want to hear? Seriously."

> = " come up with your solution then " tactic .

>

> I'm interested in hearing about and discussing

> issues that relate to the bid for a new secondary

> school in the area .

>

> And yes I'm serious ,can't think what gave you the

> impression that I was joking ?

>

> But I'm not interested in entering into an

> argument solely to justify my right to post on

> this thread .

Just to clarify, when I said "seriously" I wasn't suggesting that you were in some way joking, I was saying that my question was a serious/genuine one, not trying to wind you up.

I just don't know what you and others expect to get from this thread with regards the fraud issue. I've got no probalem with people talking about it, it's interesting to me too. But some people seem to be demanding answers, and I wonder who they expect to give these answers?

[LondonMix]

Hi James, that link doesn't answer my questions. Also, exactly what powers does Lord Nash have to intervene and what is the process and what are the points that he can formally consider.

Right now, the process by which the EFA makes its decisions (consultation with the academy provider / with the LA/ etc) and on what criteria the allocate land to competing applications (assessment of community need / first come first serve / etc) is totally opaque.

The very specific questions raised in my previous post are what I would like specific answers to please.

[katgod]

Interesting story in Evening Standard yesterday about a new Harris Primary in Beckenham. The council has refused planning permission for temporary portacabin type accommodation for the new school which was intended to take children this September. So the children due to go to Harris are all being taken on by an existing local authority school. Begging the question why the Planning stuff was not dealt with sooner and why a new primary is being built when there is capacity locally .

Does not help Ed but at least shows the madness of this is not just being felt here. And thank you to the poster who explained where Hatcham is- nonsense then to call our 'if the developers and Harris don't get there first' school after a place several miles away. Stick to Haberdashers.

[redjam]

Parentsteeringgroup/James/whoever, can you clarify for me whether James' post of 24 July is correct:

'I hope you're wrong and we don't have duplicates between our list of supporters and the Charter list. The EFA would be expected to compare lists to de duplicate them as a supporter on both lists is contrary to the criteria of support EFA requires.'

Is this true? I was specifically told at Charter that I could sign up to both bids and both my votes would count - 'and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong'. As I would be v happy with either Charter or Habs I put my name to both campaigns, stating truly that I would put (either of) them as my first choice, whichever one wins the bid. Now I'm worried my votes cancel each other out. This seems madness, but can someone clarify this please?

[parentsteeringgroup]

Dear Redjam

The ED situation of two bids for the same area / same proposed site is unusual and probably unique and the DfE would recognise these local circumstances. We can check to see if there are any other precedents, but we may not get an answer till early Sept. The DfE requirement to state a first preference is principally designed to ensure that free schools are not under-subscribed when they open, it is a gauge to indicate that there is genuine support and that there will be a minimum number of pupils/ admissions from the first year on. It is very clear from the number of our supporters that proving local demand for another excellent local school isn't an issue for this area.

Many people have wanted to give the prospect of a new school the very best chance and there may be some people that have signed up to both campaigns genuinely with that intention in mind. We don't know if dual signing has actually occurred to any degree that would have any bearing as Charter have yet to indicate their levels of support.

But please don't worry about cancelling out your support or inadvertently undermining the need for a new school by signing both. It is likely the DfE will be pragmatic about the local situation/ circumstances as well as having regard to their criteria. They will consider support for both bids fully. They will want to know how many people are broad "supporters" who welcome a new school and then more specifically the numbers of parents who have registered with a provider as their first choice and how many of those have registered a child currently in Yr 4 and Yr 3 as they will be the first two intakes of pupils.

Our campaign has never relied on paper petitions to capture support. We have gathered supporters for a school, then we identified Habs as our chosen provider and when we did our supporters grew again. At least 63% of our supporters came after we announced Habs, our support is still growing. All these supporters have been able to withdraw support at any time and have been asked to register directly with Habs as first choice provider or simply remove themselves from our list. Support for our campaign at every stage is clear for the DfE to see.

There will be numerous other factors that will also determine which bid is successful, both bids will have to clearly demonstrate they understand where they think the local need for places is, such as to the east of the site radiating out to ED,PR and the direction of Nunhead. Bids also have to show they are providing a school that meets a local need that is not already being provided and also genuinely improves the choice of schools for local children.

We are very pleased to hear that you would be happy to send your child to Haberdashers' if our bid is successful.

[redjam]

Many thanks, parentsteeringgroup, for your full and helpful answer - much appreciated. Please do post again if the situation changes and we have to make a confirmed vote as to which one we'd prefer. As a local parent in a 'black hole' area with a soon-to-be Yr 5 child, I would be delighted/ecstatic with either option!

[intexasatthe moment]

parentsteering group - does the EFA decide on finance for buying the site ? does it also decide on which sponsor to go with ? do you know how much influence Lord Nash has on choice of sponsor ?

sorry if this is really silly post ,I'm feeling rather ill this morning ( health ussues ,not drink relate ! ) and probably shouldn't be posting at all !

[samstopit]

Redjam if you live in a black hole for co-ed secondaries please do fill out the haberdashers online feedback form and tell us where you are. We are trying to design an admissions policy that addresses unmet need in ED.

[parentsteeringgroup]

ITATM we are happy to have a go at answering your questions, I'm a firm believer in the rule that the only silly question is the question you don't ask! But can we suggest you also use the New Schools Network enquiry service for official responses to questions about the decision making process, and if you find out anything of interest please share it.

Once a school bid has been approved the EFA will determine the total budget for the new school, this will include the site purchase cost.

The DfE / EFA will usually receive bids from a federation or school that is already (or will become) an educational trust, some trusts are sponsored by a named individual or charity. So sponsors for schools are pre determined by the applicant themselves before they submit their bid to the DfE.

Lord Nash is Minister for Free Schools, once they have been created. The bid decision process pre approval is very separate to this, and will be managed by senior civil servants within the DfE and then the EFA.

The steering group's chosen provider is Habs, an established Federation which is supported by a separate historic education charity set up by the Worshipful Company of Haberdashers' back in the mists of time before venture capitalism as we now know it!

Again, thanks for the interest you have shown in what's going on and I think we are all looking forward to a quiet August to allow us all to rest and recover!

[redjam]

Samstopit - done!

[intexasatthe moment]

Thanks parentsteeringgroup for that . I have looked on the New Schools Network site - it doesn't seem to cater for general questions or have any info about the decision making process ,but I may well have missed something . Or possibly you have to register with them and start the process of making a specific application before this kind of question can be answered .

Like others I feel either Habs or The Charter would be an equally good choice but I was wondering how the powers that be and which powers that be decide . I remember something of a kerfuffle when Nash was reported in the press as vetoing a new secondary school in Holborn that was to be sponsored by The Institute of Education on the grounds that they lacked experience in running secondary schools ( bit rich coming from him but that's another story ).

I suppose politics is always wheels within wheels ,hidden from us ordinary folk . And of course I understand that it's unusual to have more than one sponsor ( sorry I find it hard to say provider as it's the tax payers who are providing the funds ) so I guess there may not yet be a mechanism for dealing with such a situation .

edited to say I'm not asking for answers to questions in this post ,though obviously if anyone has any that's great . I'm just voicing concerns about how the process seems to be unclear .

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

They have an info request form - http://www.newschoolsnetwork.org/contact-us

but also a phone number - 020 7537 9208

My understanding is EFA receive the applications and make recommendations. Those recommendations are run past Lord Nash for the official decision. EFA then enact those decisions for each application.

Hope this helps.

[intexasatthe moment]

Thank you James . I've sent a query and will "share" when I receive a reply .

[James Barber]

The site for both secondary schoo,l campaigns is key.

I've written an open letter to Southwark Council Leader about this - please see attached.

As things stand with Southwark Council marking much of the Dulwich Hospital Site for housing the land values are so extreme only a tiny portion of the site will be affordable for a new secondary school.

Southwark Council need to explain how it will avoid this sutiation, or as I've previously requested change the planning expectations for the hopsital site, rather than raise the spectre of a Harris primary school also going on the site.

Without the council leader getting a grip apart from the universally agreed replacement health provision we will have both a secondary school and primary school on ridiculoulsy squeezed spaces plus housing.