Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[Otta]

dontpanic Wrote:

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> Haberdashers' Aske's Dulwich School

> HADS

>

> Doesn't need an 'East' the Hospital never did...

>

> If JAGS is ok and used as an official acronym then

> why not?

Totally agree about the East.

Hatcham is the area which people that live there call Telegraph Hill, Brockley or New Cross.

[TE44]

Yes james I understand there is a problem with fraud what i don't get is how a civil court can make a ruling to

recover money, when no criminal charges were brought. I would have thought the EFA woulld have pressed for

charges rather than chasing money which was not recovered.

[Grotty]

Also agree with above:

1) Hatcham is terrible

2) Don't need the "East"

3) Don't need the "College"

"Haberdashers' Aske's Dulwich" is great

[Fuschia]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Yes james I understand there is a problem with

> fraud what i don't get is how a civil court can

> make a ruling to

> recover money, when no criminal charges were

> brought. I would have thought the EFA woulld have

> pressed for

> charges rather than chasing money which was not

> recovered.

From what I hear, the spending was actually authorised, hence not actually fraud. If there was evidence of a criminal act, there would be charges.

[TE44]

Fuschia its the first I've heard about it, it seems very strange no charges

were brought sooner if a criminal act was committed, especially with civic court

ruling. Where did you hear the spending was authorised, i'd b interested to know. James

believes the EFA are more open but don't want to hold my breath waiting on that source. Thanks.

[Otta]

The guy is clearly a clever accountant, maybe (and I don't know) he hasn't actually broken any laws, whilst being unbelievably dishonest.

I know sone current and former teachers, will dig for some gos.

[mrs.lotte]

According to BBC news the Civil Judge totally rejected the claim that spending had been authorised.

I would like to know more about this but would express some caution as to publishing "gos" on a public forum that relates to an ongoing criminal investigation. Some may call that gagging/cover up but I call it good sense and due process.

On a different note - I'm not keen on "Hatcham" prefer Haberdashers East Dulwich.

[TE44]

Considering he was arrested almost two years ago its not surprising theres a question over what happened here.

I don't quite understand why the police, as James said, would tell Habs to keep it quiet for fear of scuppering

a court case, i'd like to know what has stopped this case from being held in a criminal court.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

Because the Police need to finish their investigation.

This feels a bit silly now. You've heard the Police told the Habs federation not to talk about this until after any criminal court case. But you keep questioning why Habs didnt talk about it.

The problem isnt Habs not talking about it but rather the Police taking over two years.

You've asked why EFA didnt push for criminal charges over trying to recover cash. Recovering cash is harder the longer you leave it. The EFA wouldnt be involved in prosecuting criminal charges (perhaps witnesses). That's for the Police and CPS.

Hi Fuschia,

I'm amazed you've written your post when the Police are still investigating what the press have reported as a complex multi country, multi year fraud.

Or have you been briefed by the Police?

Hi mrs.lotte,

Ditto for me - Haberdashers' East Dulwich.

Hi Grotty,

As an East Dulwich councillor I have to promote East Dulwich rather than amorphous Dulwich. Agree that college isnt ideal as for me it doesnt sound very comprehensive secondary school like.

[Otta]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Hi Grotty,

> As an East Dulwich councillor I have to promote East Dulwich rather than amorphous Dulwich.

Why James? What difference does it make other than sounding rubbish? As has already been pointed out, it's being (hopefully!!!) built on the site of Dulwich Hospital, not East Dulwich Hospital.

[Mick Mac]

If the people who attend will be primarily se22 residents then it should have East Dulwich in the name.

Its a school created out of the need for additional school places in East Dulwich after all.

[Otta]

That argument makes no sense to me to be honest.

[James Barber]

Dulwich to most people nowadays means Dulwich Village.

If Habs call our new school Haberdasher's Dulwich School or Haberdashers' Dulwich College it could get confused with other schools.

[TE44]

Jame It feels "a bit silly to me", that the name of the school seems more important to you, than the dealings of

a significant fraud, where the EFA are still srongly encouraging providers to adopt the Habs Federation financial

management. Have Habs gave any public statement after the ruling of the high court.

Surely there was plenty evidence for the decision to be made.

I am not saying the problem lies soley with Habs, i have always thought of a civil procedure as an alternative

to criminal. I find it very worrying that this amount of money can be defrauded, go before a high court judge and still no criminal proceedings, regardless of the evidence given for the judges decision.

It feels to me like the law is being used to cover a crime.

I would suggest they call in the department dealing with benefit fraud, i suppose theres to much money involved

and ever so complicated.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

Habs have been directed by the Police to say as little as possible until after criminal court proceedings.

So I don't believe they've made a public statement after the civil case.

I'd be horrified if they ignored a request from the Police - wouldn't you?

We can go around and around this again and again but your criticism seems to be why aren't Habs talking more when they would be irresponsible to do so ignoring Police direction.

Please, lets leave the police to do their job.

[Otta]

TE44 Why are you pushing this agenda so hard.

Whatever did or did not happen about the fraud, it is hitory.

James I disagree that "most people" mean the village when they say Dulwich.

I grew up in East Dulwich, but when people say to me where abouts are you from, I have always said "Dulwich".

Not that it actually matters at all, or will have any effect on my life, but I just think "Haberdashers Aske's Dulwich" is the nicest sounding name.

[TE44]

As i've said already James, its not just about Habs,as much as you can't seem to see past that.

All cases of fraud must be reported to EFA, this contract between themselves and providers has been

questioned on there transparency. Now we're being told when major fraud has been committed we must

accept that no explanation will be given regardless of this case going in front of a high court judge.

I would have thought the Efa had some clout in moving this on. I take it Habs are in contact with EFA over this matter.

[intexasatthe moment]

Dulwich and East Dulwich are totally distinct areas .

[Otta]

So where is Dulwich?

I'd have thought that Dulwich is ED, WD and DV all together.

[TE44]

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jul/12/academy-letter-parents-2m-fraud

Just saw this (link above) about the fraud, further down it says,

"The federation is believed to have been in the running to open another school

in East Dulwich but a rival academy chain recently emerged as front runner"

Otta I am merely asking a question, havent you heard of history repeating itsf.

In light of the mismanagements of finace by a number of academys earlier this year,

of course i'm not saying thats what happened in this case, I can only

wait on the outcome.

And seriously what information can parent give to media regarding interfering in any

prosecution.

[samstopit]

Useful Q&A document on the 'have your say' thread which addresses the fraud on page 12.

[intexasatthe moment]

Dulwich = Dulwich Village . I've lived here all my life and agree with James ,if you say Dulwich people assume Dulwich Village .

[dontpanic]

Yes but it was never called East Dulwich Hospital...

[TE44]

http://leftfootforward.org/2014/07/anyone-interested-in-education-can-learn-from-the-haberdashers-askes-debacle/

here's an interesting piece written by a habs parent.

[Otta]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> Dulwich = Dulwich Village . I've lived here all my

> life and agree with James ,if you say Dulwich

> people assume Dulwich Village .

Well I've also been around a while and I disagree, so guess it just depends who you talk to.