Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[James Barber]

Hi newboots,

Many possibilities. Lets first find out if we have enough local support for this and then take the second step. Families can always withdraw their support if they're not happy with the provider and the ethos. Hopefully we'll not follow a route that causes that. Lets find out the level of support.

It looks really encouraging so far but we've still 137 families to find who want to give their support.

[hpsaucey]

Thanks for organising James. Have emailed details and will mention it to others I know.

What I wouldn't give for a non-faith/ non Haberdashers/Harris/ Co-ed....

[Houseoflego]

Co-ed, non faith and non Harris please and possibly to include an ASD resource base.

Put me down to be on list to be considered for committee.

Have mailed James my details.

[HannahSE23]

Hi James,

Can I add my name to the list even if I'm in Lewisham, though right on the Southwark border? Or does it have to be Southwark residents only?

Thanks

[DuncanW]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry I'm being dim this Friday afternoon - CPO's?

No, not at all - I meant Compulsory Purchase Order

[Gubodge]

I have children in both years 3 & 4 and have emailed James. That we need another secondary school is a no-brainer, but I would have reservations with my children being the guinea pigs for a totally new enterprise. I am fundamentally opposed to the Harris ethos, but would be very happy to see a successful local school such as Charter take the site on. I agree with Marfisa; I'm not looking for choice, I'm looking for quality, but Charter expanding would in fact increase the choice for all those local children who live beyond it's current tiny catchment.

[James Barber]

Hi DuncanW,

It extremely unlikely a Compulsory Purchase Order of land approach would be taken. It can take quite some time. But if you had a site you think should be CPO'd for a new secondary school please email me in private.

[Cubanbreeze]

Hmm ... so let me get this right: you, our elected representative, are trying to manufacture the appearance of a groundswell of support for transforming what was a public hospital into a privatised education provider. Whatever next? Maybe you would like to find a state school to close and turn into a private hospital.

Of course we need a secondary school, James - though, as others have pointed out, not in the one part of ED that is already well served, by the Charter school; and not yet another one run by Lord Harris, to whom education seems to be being outsourced wholesale. Pretty soon our children's life chances will depend entirely on the munificence of billionaire philathropists. It'll be like living in Whitechapel in the 19th century.

Until that great day comes, though, what an inconvenient thing democracy is for you trailblazers charged with assembling a coalition of the credulous! Sixty responses so far is a bit pathetic, isn't it? Maybe after the Pisa results last week, with Sweden's ranking plummeting and its "free" schools programme now looking rather less than enviable, people are starting to smell a rat. Or maybe they are not quite as stupid as business and its facilitators in politics seem to think they are.

[James Barber]

Hi Cubanbreeze,

No, I'm not trying to create a private school.

I'm trying to create a state funded school that reports to the Department of Education.

But yes I hate to see over 20,000m2 of public land staying derelict waiting for thE NHS to sell it for private housing while we have a mounting shortage of schools places.

If you can suggest another site further from The Charter I'd be really grateful.

AS for philanthropists. All these schools are funded by public money from your and my taxes. They don't run for profit and are charities.

The only difference is Local Authority schools act an intermediaries for government money.

The free school concept is the same as the Labour government Academy concept. It's a way for central government to side step local authorities where an organisation tries to show it will have quicker and more impact than an LA.

I think LA's should be able to do this where they can demonstrate they are equally as successful. But I don't run national education policies so I have to live with what we have and make the best possible job for local children.

What would you propose to provide desperately needed school places working within the current laws?

[intexasatthe moment]

"But yes I hate to see over 20,000m2 of public land staying derelict waiting for thE NHS to sell it for private housing while we have a mounting shortage of schools places. "

Is this really an accurate description of the situation ? I thought consultations had taken place and preferences expressed for a community health resource/presence/centre ? Goodness knows there's a need for that ,many elderly and people with chronic conditions fare badly visiting Kings with it's parking and transport problems and it's sheer busyness .

[bawdy-nan]

Cuban Breeze ...I don't think that East Dulwich residents are especially well-served with secondary schools, especially if you are a boy. There's an urgent demographic reason for trying to create a new school and now that Local Authorities have had this power taken away from them it is necessary for a non-LA grouping to step forward.

I don't like it that the big chains (Harris, ARK etc) are hoovering up all the opportunities and effectively creating a mono-culture, but without the local accountability of LAs. I applaud James for stepping in here and trying to make the best of the situation. This is something upon which the community could have a direct impact unlike, say, the allocation of health resources. Doing it this way, rather than waiting for the big chains to step in, might mean that the resource remains locally accountable. You know what I would like? A co-ed, LA run comp. But we're not going to get that so we might as well advocate for the best we can.

I think that, given that most of the people at whom this is addressed probably won't have had to think about secondaries yet and what their options might be, signing up 62 people in 6 days on an online forum is really not bad at all. James, is it worth asking some of the primaries if you can put a notice up on their noticeboards or in newsletters directing people to the forum?

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

The future health use has been scoped out as requiring 5,000m2 to 7,000m2 of the sites total 27,000m2.

[James Barber]

Hi bawdy-nan,

I have asked and some have forward this campaign to their parents.

NB. Southwark Council has no LA controlled secondary schools.

The effective blocking of new LA schools started under Tony blair. It isnt anything new. If anything it in theroy is slightly easier now if an LA wantedto do this. BUT a new school costs many millions to create. Using the free school process, or the previous Academy process, means all the costs are covered by central government.

[Cubanbreeze]

Hello, James

You're right about free schools and academies being the same thing. They are intended as a means of enticing some parents out of local authority schools in order to leave those schools as last resorts, thus "rolling back the state" in classic Thatcher/Blair style. Follow the money.

Anyway, this is not the time to argue about all that. In another world, I would suggest a local authority school for the site. In the one we've got, I am going to suggest the blindingly obvious use already recommended by plenty of sensible people on this thread: let the Charter school expand. It has a proven track record of excellence, it is wildly oversubscribed, and it's just up the road.

Oops, wrong answer. You'd better keep on consulting.

[James Barber]

Hi Cubanbreeze,

I don't think the Charter could more than double in size without affecting quality.

It a much clearer process to get a new school than to double a school in size. It's also much less disruptive to build a new school than expand a school from 180 per year to 360. That would take them from 1,200 pupils to 2,400 pupils in one school. I just don't think The Charter would maintain its popularity. Do you?

[bawdy-nan]

There aren't ANY LA secondary schools in Southwark at all the Charter is an Academy.

[Cubanbreeze]

Are you saying a successful school can't run more than one site? Try telling that to the Haberdasher's Aske's Federation!

Yes, I do think the Charter would be far, far more likely to maintain its popularity than some novice "free" school would be to get off the ground, with no experience whatsoever, armed only with a one-off wad of cash central government has given it to get some pupils off the books.

The "failing free school" news stories are starting to roll in already, predictably.

It's unconvincing to assert that it's easier to start a new school than to seek the help of an existing good one, without offering any evidence for that claim. And it's not good enough to blame the rot on past administrations while trying to further that process yourself. Yes, we need a school, urgently, but I think you need to listen to local people instead of offering them a yes/no option on something you refuse to define.

Will other people on this thread join me in calling for a public meeting about the future of this site?

Either that or spell it out here. What's the plan? Is it for another Harris? Or is it for a free school? If it's the latter, who is in the frame to run it?

[hellosailor]

Cubanbreeze Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> Of course we need a secondary school, James -

> though, as others have pointed out, not in the one

> part of ED that is already well served, by the

> Charter school; and not yet another one run by

> Lord Harris, to whom education seems to be being

> outsourced wholesale. Pretty soon our children's

> life chances will depend entirely on the

> munificence of billionaire philathropists. It'll

> be like living in Whitechapel in the 19th

> century.

>

What Cubanbreeze said. Except I don't think Harris is a philanthropist by any stretch of the imagination.

[bornagain]

Cubanbreeze Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I think you need to listen to local people instead of offering them a yes/no option on something you refuse to define.

Will other people on this thread join me in calling for a public meeting about the future of this site?

Either that or spell it out here. What's the plan? Is it for another Harris? Or is it for a free school? If it's the latter, who is in the frame to run it?

-------------------

Yes to a public meeting, not just to the future of the site but to the future of secondary education in ED.

Yes, what is the plan? From the coy comments about 'plenty of contenders' but refusing to name them, I think there is already a shortlist (may even be of just one) of possible contractors.

Transparency is the key to democracy. You will rapidly lose support and credibility if you are not upfront with the community!

[fleurie]

I agree. Lots of parents in the area, myself included, will be relucatant to sign a petition for a school that seems likely to be used as evidence that local parents favour yet another Harris academy. I am extremely concerned about their status as monopoly provider of education in South London.

[James Barber]

Hi fleurie,

I guarantee once we find a likely partner everyone who has offered their support will categorically be given the chance to withdraw their support.

Hi born-again,

NHS property have held public meeting about the future of the Dulwich Hospital site.

[littlek1cker]

I would strongly support another school that could cater not only for those in East Dulwich in a secondary school vacuum but also those on Denmark Hill in the same situation.

I would love to see a school that was co-ed, non-faith and with a focus on wellbeing and life/employability skills as well as academic qualifications. I have a child in year 4 and younger one too. From what I've seen, Harris and ARK schools seem very narrowly about discipline and attainment in core subjects to me and the new headteacher at Charter seems to be going the same way.

There are lots of other providers - through my professional life I've come across at least a couple of dozen although I'm not sure which ones would be interested in this area.

But James, I've got a couple of questions.

I've actually been involved in setting up several schools based on a pedagogical model that I developed (with others). The thing is it is fairly easy, although very time consuming, to set up a mediocre school but very difficult to set up an 'exemplary' school. The ethos and admissions criteria of the school is also really important. So I think if you are asking parents to support a new school you have to at least sketch out the vision for what kind of school it will be. What do you have in mind?

I also deal with NHS Property Services (who own the hospital site) in my professional life. They would have to sell the land at commercial value. Where will the money come from to buy the site? Would DfE provide the capital?

[Guest]

Dear James

Have been reading the thread with interest, as a parent living in ED. Clearly, lots of support for the principle of a new school with many voices clamouring for non-faith and co-ed. You're in favour I gather. But what I absolutely can't gather is any detail in anything you're proposing. You have been asked repeatedly to confirm opposition to Harris as a potential provider, but I haven't seen you actually do that yet. You've also been asked to confirm which "other providers" you have in mind. Again, nothing. Other sites appear to be out of the question. James you are clearly a man with a mission but you're going have to come a bit cleaner if you want to take people's children with you. Only way is to have the public meeting. Then we can really ask some questions!

[Cubanbreeze]

Yes to the above post. But as I said before, James, what is your plan? Or are you trying to make a virtue out of not having one? You say, slightly mindbogglingly, that "everyone who has offered their support will categorically be given a chance to withdraw their support".

That's the closest we've got to a statement of intent from you: what you want is carte blanche to do whatever you want, with a promise that we, who voted you in - though did we? Really? How many, do you think? - might have a right of veto, at some future point as ill-defined as your plans are for the East Dulwich hospital site.

I say again: 1. Is it a Harris? 2. Or is it going to be a School of Freedom (possibly with a nice Lib Dem involved at a senior level who has managed to jump ship before the coming Lib Dem apocalypse. Good luck with that)?

And 3. Do we all have to keep asking you, again and again and again, like a bunch of Jeremy Paxmans(Paxmen?), for the answers to the first two questions. Because we will.

When is the public meeting? In case you hadn't got it, people want answers. We do pay your wages, you know.

[James Barber]

Hi Marguerita,

At this stage we're finding out if we have enough support for a new school.

We don't yet.

Assuming we do find enough support we then properly talk to schools and their governing bodies would have to be involved as well as their parents. It would be inappropriate to suggest schools before talking to them and their governing bodies.

Happy for other sites to be considered. Which ones do you have in mind?

Hi Cubanbreeze,

No, I do not want carte blanche. If I wanted that I wouldn't have made such a statement.

I see this running in several steps. First ascertaining if we have enough support for a new school. Forming a proper steering group of interested supporters. Then properly approaching schools that are co-ed, non faith to see which would be interested and what ethos they would agree.

I'm sorry if this feels slow and lacks certainty for you as a parent.

Holding a public meeting when we don't yet have sufficient support for a new school is putting the cart before the horse. WE also don't have the details that most people attending a public meeting would want.