Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[James Barber]

Hi Biped1,

No one has turned education into a market. As Belle has said it's trying to ensure we have the support of the community to create an outstanding new school. That any questions or concerns are fully addressed. I'm rather proud of all the effort going into trying to be as open as possible and accountable.

Hi Otta,

Hopefully next to. We are very lucky that two such great school providers are so keen to create our new school. To think until 8 weeks ago the council said no new school was needed and we had no provider. This has become one of the projects I'm proudest to have initiated and been a key part of.

[Otta]

Biped you've posted 3 times on this forum and it's clear you're a Charter supporter (fair enough). So I wonder if your response to my light hearted post would have been the same if roles were reversed and it was Charter who will be in the gazebo? (and HABS pitching the tent)

Somehow I doubt it.

Outrage when jt suits your agenda, bravo.

But yes, I do find "it" funny, and by "it" I mean the thinly veiled sniping.

[TE44]

Can't see why a meeting has not been called where questions can be answered to the community, rather than individuals

Perhaps asking the same question. Have I missed something, has Haberdashers now committed 100% to being providers.

[Belle]

There will be a public meeting in June, but the date is not yet confirmed, hence no announcement yet. In the meantime, we are doing our best to answer questions, which is why we are coming along on Sunday when we know a large part of the community will be out and about.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

That is being planned but the Goose Green Fair seems a great way to continue a process of engagement I started last December publicly.

[LondonMix]

You so realise it is Lewisham council that set the admission policy...

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> I'm not sure what to think about this .

>

> I don't like the idea of all through schools -

> just feel that kids sometimes need a fresh start

> and that their options to go elsewhere will be

> diminishing with this trend . Also feels a bit

> like indoctrination - Pimlico Academy that I'm a

> little familar with and follow are very keen on a

> particular American curriculum following ED Hirsch

> and they start young with them at primary .

> Reminds me of that Jesuit thing - give me a boy at

> 7 ..... .Except now it's a child at 4 or 5

> .http://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/oct/15/

> hirsch-core-knowledge-curriculum-review

>

> I digress . Could not including the primary

> transfer pupils in the banded places available be

> fairer ? Means all external candidates are

> competing on a level playing field ? But

> obvioulsly limits amount of places available and

> presumably shifts the whole " buying into the area

> " tactic down to primary school level .

>

> What a nightmare . What a mistake that we've gone

> down this route of Academys ,Free Schools and not

> put the money poured into them to better use in

> improving LA ( and in my dream world inner london

> authority ) schools .

[intexasatthe moment]

Free schools/Academys/Foundation schools determine their own admissions policies .

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

It's a but more complicated than that. They have to fully consult, etc, and open to challenges etc.

But for the proposed Haberdashers' Aske's East Dulwich College we anticipate it consulting on banding and distance within banding after the usual things like looked after children, siblings, etc.

The reasons the last Labour government and current coalition government aren't allowing local authorities to have free rain to open council schools is because many councils around the country are doing a very poor job of it.

Any well run council can attract the free school provider they want and have the bonus of central government paying all the capital revenue bills. Hence why doublnig Ivydale Primary School not a great decision - takes it to twice the optimal size for primary school - and will costs Southwark Council tax payers ?5M for the priviledge

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi James, I think parents with young children living in the vicinity of Ivydale are delighted that it's going to expand. As the school will be split over two sites, there will be the equivalent pupil numbers of a two form entry school on each site. It does require good leadership and a well thought through senior leadership structure. I have great faith in the current leadership of the school that they will continue to lead a good and popular school. The Stuart Road site gives the opportunity for the school to provide new facilities that couldn't be possible within the current Grade II listed building.

Renata

[LondonMix]

Yes, but Lewisham asked the school to adopt banding (they used to have a lottery within a 3 mile radius for half the places and distance for the other 50% of places after siblings, special needs etc). The lottery was designed to overcome the potential issue with distance only criteria that leads to wealthier parents buying a place at the school. However, Lewisham wanted to organise borough wide banding which is most effective when all schools adopt a banding policy. Hatcham was asked to switch to banding, which it did and now all schools in Lewisham use bands. Therefore complaining about Hatcham's admissions policy and wishing the council could set it, in this specific instance is totally illogical.

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> Free schools/Academys/Foundation schools determine

> their own admissions policies .

[LondonMix]

Also, I believe James answered this already (page 18). Hatcham believe the non-verbal reasoning scores are a better tool for assessing ability as they are more stable. The other scores are more influenced by the quality of previous education provision.

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I asked if anyone knew the rationale

> behind Habs opting for a different banding system

> than the one used by other Lewisham schools ? Or

> because I said that being geographically close to

> The Charter ( if this all goes ahead ) they'd be

> in competition for talented children ?

[samstopit]

The new school will be in Southwark. They can do admissions differently if, after consultation with the community, that is considered the right thing to do.

[LondonMix]

Sampit, that is totally the case. The school can propose a different admissions policy reflecting parents wishes but the Department for Education have to approve it under all circumstances. The DfE requires free school?s to have an admissions policy that adheres to the admissions code and therefore, whatever specific strategy is employed (distance only, lottery, banding etc) it will have to be inclusive to be approved.

[James Barber]

Yes, and we all want the fairest possible admissions polict resulting in the most comprehensive intake possible. This is fair for the school and importantoly other schools.

Banding is present in a number of existing Southwark schools. So it isn't anything new to the area.

[intexasatthe moment]

Seems to be a lot of stating the obvious and what is already known .

Banding will only really help achieve a fair admissions process if the same system is operated by all schools in an area . And I believe this area should be London wide and require a London wide authority to administer it . And it should be the same type of banding - Hatcham's doesn't operate the same banding or admissions policy ( different tests ,different number of bands ,scholarships ) as the other Lewisham schools. Hatcham's may well have their own perfectly rational reasons for the type of test they use but crucially it's a different way of dividing up the applicants .

So in my book Lewisham haven't got what they wanted - what's the point of borough wide banding if some schools opt for a different system and retain their scholarship system . And before anyone tells me - I know the law entitles them to do so .

So yes ,I do realise that Academies etc are supposed to consult with other schools and pay attention to a LA admissions forum ( I don't believe they have any obligation and have never known them to , to consult with the community ) but consultion isn't the same as promising to change one's policy according to some democratic choice . I am aware that Academies etc have to abide by the admissions code - what concerns me is that a number of sponsors operating schools check by jowl can both use completely different admissions policies . I am well aware that it's legal - but it doesn't result in a coherent or fair admissions system .

And whether the money comes from central or local government it's still tax payers money - we're not saving money because central government are paying .

And .... I think it's more important that the system should be fair for the community and the children as opposed to

"fair for the school and importantoly other schools. "

[intexasatthe moment]

LondonMix - I've not complained about Hatcham's admission policy .

[LondonMix]

Besides making a general point that you don't like the free school / academy system (which we know is your position), what exactly are you trying to add to this discussion about a new school in the area and the choice between Charter and Hatcham?

Hatcham have coordinated with Lewisham in setting its admission policy while maintaining the music scholarship program. Do you think this means they aren't inclusive, are a poor choice for this area?

[intexasatthe moment]

I'm looking for information and clarification .

I don't think I'm trying to " add " anything , although I do think it's important to understand both the bigger picture and the detail relating to a new school .

[intexasatthe moment]

" Hatcham have coordinated with Lewisham in setting its admission policy while maintaining the music scholarship program. Do you think this means they aren't inclusive, are a poor choice for this area? "

I think Hatcham's are an example of how Free Schools etc can have great independence in setting their admissions policies .It's not only that they retain a scholarship system but that unlike the other Lewisham schools they decide to use a different test and have a different number of bands .

I think either Charter or Hatcham would be perfectly adequate choices to run another school in the borough . There are aspects about both schools that I personally dislike but I don't think it's helpful to be critical about either on here . Which is why I haven't been .

I've already said ( in answer to the request for people to say what they are looking for in a new school ) that I would choose ( not that I think anyone is in a position to choose ) a school with fair banding that is referenced to national attainment ( not because I think this is fair but simply because it is in line with Harris banding and I don't think using different banding systems in the same area is helpful ) and places allocated by lottery within the bands ,

[EDmummy]

With under subscription at Harris boy and Girls ED why exactly do we need this school?

[Belle]

Edmummy, this is about an anticipated need in 2016, given current year 3/4 sizes.

[samstopit]

... and choice for those of us who want a co-ed school for our children and are not in the Charter catchment.

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

All our local secondary schools operate banding except The Charter School.

So it would be odd for a new secondary school to not operate banding.

Hi EDmummy,

Both ED Harris Boys and Girls Academies are full.

[James Barber]

The Dulwich Festival Fair on Goose Green had a an area for the Parents Steering Group and Haberdashers' Aske's Federation to talk about the school we're proposing. We also had ex.pupils, year 9 pupils and Haberdasher's Hatcham College Vice Principal talking to local families.

I thought it really useful. Hopefully others did as well.

Setting it up first thing today I was worried about the weather but it didn't seem to dent the spirits at all.

[intexasatthe moment]

" Hi ITATM,

All our local secondary schools operate banding except The Charter School.

So it would be odd for a new secondary school to not operate banding. "

Thanks James - well aware of that . That's why I'm suggesting that the new school operate the same banding system as the one used by Harris who have a large number of secondary schools in the area .

Oh ,and before you point it out - yes I do realise that Kingsdale have their own banding system . Which as it operates scholarships perhaps has more in common with Habs .