Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[bawdy-nan]

I'm very pleased the process is moving forward - well done to the steering group.

But, this post decision spatting, claiming (victory for the lib dems according to the email as it arrived in my inbox this morning) and counter claiming really illustrates well many of the points made earlier up the thread about the ramshackle nature of marketising education. I hate and distrust the trying to make political capital out of this as well as the apparent territorial upset that seems to have provoked some reactions.

If Charter, which gets great results on a tight distance admissions criteria, was so keen to set up a new school and widen their reach why didn't it do that before? There's been the legal possibility for a while.

[Derek_Hill]

Mrs.Lotte

The Governors of the Charter School would welcome community views on the right approach to the admissions policy. The application process encourages innovative models for free schools. But whatever policy is chosen, there will be winners and losers.

Derek

[Derek_Hill]

bawdy-man,

The Charter School Education Trust has been undertaking a strategic review process for more than a year considering what its next steps should be - under the "future-proofing the school" theme. The decision to announce that we are considering submitting to the DfE to run a new school comes out of that process. Our timing has, of course, been impacted by talk of the likely availability of a suitable site in East Dulwich.

Derek

[mrs.lotte]

Thank you for your prompt response Derek but I remain unclear - I think that you are saying that you would consider a different admission criteria for any new site but would you consider changing the current admission criteria to the existing school?

[intexasatthe moment]

Scruffy Mummy - well we don't really know what people want do we ?

Thankfully as Derek Hill has pointed out the decision will be made by the DoE and not by a finger in the wind of EDF posts .

Glad that distance wasn't putting people off from applying to Academy@Peckham . They are undersubscribed ,it will take several years before the pupils of the feeder primary school are of secondary school age and the new school opening on the Aylesbury estate will reduce demand .

And I note from many posters that they feel it is urgent to have extra places now .

[DenmotherSmith]

Yes Charter, why didn't you go down this route before? Perhaps the charter governor busy posting here this morning can explain why suddenly after many years not reaching out to other schools or federating with struggling schools like Askes has demonstrated , they decided the morning it is announced that Askes will open a school down the road they realize it is something they wanted to do for ages.

What exceptional sour grapes, and really not the best grounds for a new school venture.

[bawdy-nan]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, Derek

[intexasatthe moment]

Denmothersmith ,I think JB has pipped you to the post with calling " sour grapes " poor looser and generally heaping vitriol on The Charter school .

As you say not the best grounds for a new school venture .

I think Derek Hill's post above at 12.23 answers your question about The Charters plans regarding expansion .

[Derek_Hill]

Denmonthersmith,

As I explained in another post, your interpretation of our motives and timelines isn't correct: The charter school governors have been considering stratetic options for quite some time, and indeed getting PWC advice on this (pro bono) for more than a year.

Derek Hill

Governor of Charter School (writing in a personal capacity).

[Scruffy Mummy]

Ok maybe I'm being dim. BUT, how is a bid by Charter School, supported by a private company (PWC) without a steering group of parents, albeit with promises of consultation, submitted straight to the Dept of Education considered to be more representative of local opinion than having a local steering group of 20 parents, supported by our democractically elected counsellor? Sure, it is not perfect (I really know the flaws in the system) - but I trust the local steering group more than I do a school and a private company! As far as I can see, as someone posted earlier on in the discussion, not one person who has fed into this discussion wanted: A Harris school, a single sex school or a faith school. Many (although not all) wanted a school that would be up when the current year 4 students reach secondary school age - the reason for this is well-documented. Most who fed into the discussion were not happy with admissions on distance only.

And the steering group considered the options, heard from providers and made a choice. That is more than seems to be happening with all the Harris primary schools springing up here there and everywhere! Another one in Nunhead now in addition to the one at the ED police station! That all seems to have happened without a pip from anyone! Anyhow, I have spent far too much time on the EDF today!

[DenmotherSmith]

Thank-you for your reply Derek, it's great that this has been a year long exercise, I'd like to understand more as to why you chose today to announce your plans? It would be great if you could explain further, is the hospital site a strategic option you had considered for some time? is there the possiblity of expansion on Charters current site or surrounding buildings?

It would be sad to see the desire for a new secondary scuppered by a bun fight between possible providers and their supporters.

[bornagain]

Wow, I'm amazed by the fallout of this announcement. Judging from the posts much earlier in this thread (ie pro Charter) I thought that people would welcome a submission from the said school. Quite the contrary. I find that a bit puzzling.

As a member of ED community with no primary age child's education at stake I would say that having two bids for the DofE to consider a very good thing. Given that the current free school system is more or less a market place, surely a bit of healthy competition would be good. Certainly the final product may be better than if just one school was in the bidding.

[Otta]

Surely the point is that there was competition and a group considered applications and chose a winner.

Most of all I agree with this.

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But, this post decision spatting, claiming

> (victory for the lib dems according to the email

> as it arrived in my inbox this morning) and

> counter claiming really illustrates well many of

> the points made earlier up the thread about the

> ramshackle nature of marketising education. I hate

> and distrust the trying to make political capital

> out of this as well as the apparent territorial

> upset that seems to have provoked some reactions.

[bawdy-nan]

Not entirely sure this is relevant but I was just looking at Charter School GB minutes on the website to see what the record showed about school plans etc and have been reading some choice discussions about the over representation of parents on the GB and plans to reduce their number and influence...

http://www.charter.southwark.sch.uk/attachments/download.asp?file=463&type=pdf

I can see that its an argument about the GB being able to be "strategic" and its not "anti-parent" as such but it chimes oddly in a debate about a community process to secure a new school.

[BeccaL]

As the parent of a child who will start secondary school in 2016, what I'd really like is the same admissions policies for all schools, but I appreciate that is unlikely. Having some which select on lottery, some which select on distance, some which combine both and others make it very difficult to judget the likelihood of getting into a particular school.

[bornagain]

Surely the point is that there was competition and a group considered applications and chose a winner.

Well, that was the preliminary round ;) We are talking about the finals now.

[Otta]

What's the point in a group stage if the teams that get knocked out just decide they're staying in the competition?

[intexasatthe moment]

Could we have some detail on the criteria used to decide which sponsor to go with ?

As promised earlier

James Barber March 12, 03:31PM

"I anticipate the decision we take having a clear explanation of how we reached it. Supporters can rthen withdraw their support. One of the joys with obvious disbenefits is the Steering Group is able to make quick decisions. "

( In reply to kirstymacs " But the Steering Group must have some process in place for deciding who that provider will be - its not unreasonable to ask that question is it? " )

simonethebeaver March 12, 03:55PM

We will also be happy to explain exactly why we chose that provide

[bornagain]

The problem is with the system, not necessarily the actions of the individuals/institutions concerned. The free school system means that bids can be put in by parents/schools/religious organisations etc. JB group does not have any official standing no more than Charter school or any other group that may want to get together to bid for a free school. It is up to the DofE to decide.

[Belle]

Re your question intexas at the moment - we analysed the schools on our shortlist, assessing them on areas such as proven track record in education; experience in establishing new schools; understanding of the Free School bid process; inclusion strategies and, crucially, the capacity and resources to open the school by September 2016. The outcome of our assessment showed Haberdashers' Askes to be the strongest contender & we are delighted that they have come on board given their track record and experience as a multi-school federation.

[intexasatthe moment]

Thank you Belle for quick reply .

[ackroyd]

I don't understand Otto's comments about "teams being knocked out". If I understand correctly there is not a limit on the number of groups that may submit a bid and it is the DfE that then considers each submission and makes a decision against various criteria as to which (if any) they consider best meet that criteria. Therefore at this stage there are no "first" or "second" places.

The process of more than one organisation submitting bids and tenders for the same project happens all the time in the Corporate, Public and NGO sectors. Surely what is important is that the bids are objectively assessed against appropriate criteria in a robust and transparent way and then a decision made as to which is the best one to take forward.

The focus in some of the comments on here seem to have become about either political or personal "wins", when surely the focus should be the fantastic news that it looks as though there may be at least 2 submissions for a new secondary school in the area. Obviously if more than one bid is submitted then the unsuccessful one/s will be disappointed, but focusing on this seems to miss the key point that everyone seems to be agreement on which is that we absolutely need an additional secondary school in the area.

[Otta]

I understand all that, and the "teams being knocked out" was a footy analogy in response to a previous post.

The point is, if anyone can just submit their applications to the DoE, you have to ask what the point was of the whole steering group, which is now looking like it was a complete waste of everyone's time. Although one would hope that they will be able to submit their findings to the DoE and they will be considered.

[Scruffy Mummy]

I don't think the steering group was a waste of time at all - the steering group are the people who are bringing the need to a new school to light and got the ball rolling. It seems true that Charter had thought about expanding and therefore, I think it is a good thing that there is an alternative possible school as Charters admissions policy is problematic I feel. In terms of admissions, to be perfectly honest, admissions on distance one only would suit me down to a T as I am currently only 400 meters from the site. HOWEVER, I do believe that diversity and the importance of keeping this new secondary from being one that you have to buy property next to in order to get a place (as is the current situation at Charter) - is more important than my individual situation and therefore I want a school with an admissions policy that will not JUST be based on distance alone.

[bornagain]

What ackroyd said.

Quite agree with your comments about 'political or personal "wins"' - perfectly illustrated by a newsletter from the LibDems that landed on my door mat this pm. The headline says 'LOCAL LIB DEMS DELIVER ANOTHER NEW SCHOOL'.