Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[bawdy-nan]

Yes - I did. As far as I can see there's a group of people trying to kickstart a process and they'll hand it over to a provider. I'm very happy with that.

[bawdy-nan]

Generally, bornagain, I would much prefer a properly planned, strategic education system. But that isn't happening and hasn't for a long while.

I do know that I am concerned by the academy chain mono-culture and I can also see that these organisations are effective at seeding schools.

This (ie parent led new school) seems to me probably the only way to influence what happens, in whatever small way possible.

The bigger, political picture isn't going to be altered by a small scale resistance in this instance. I reckon I'd rather choose a different battleground but I do respect your position.

[bornagain]

I think you have got to the nub of it, bawdy-nan when you say 'The bigger, political picture isn't going to be altered by a small scale resistance in this instance.' But this is where we disagree.

The bigger, political pictures IS MADE UP of all the small scale resistances all over London and the rest of the country. The more free schools that are set up willy nilly where locals take a view that there is a demand, the more fragmented the system becomes and further we get from a properly planned, strategic system.

For instance, someone mentioned about the school provision in Nunhead. If the proposed school does go ahead on the hospital site, this will not help the children in the bulged classes in Ivydale not one jot. They will simply not be near enough to get into the new school. So will there be another new school in Nunhead?

Instead, we should be looking at provision of secondary places not just in ED but in Nunhead, Peckham and all the surrounding areas together and planning how they will all be provided for.

[DenmotherSmith]

> And in the meantime encouraging local families to

> get together and apply en masse to The Academy at

> Peckham - a local school with loads of space

> ,excellent facilities ,co ed ,non faith and just

> waiting ,as Kingsdale did ,for an injection of

> middle class families and their children .

>

Though I dislike the insinuation that the middle classes are the holy grail for state schools, I agree that there is more to the future of secondary provision then a new school, more people need to get on board with the schools that are available now, this proposed school could take years, and may not be available to current year fours or threes, I supported the EDEN project (new secondary for east dulwich and nunhead) over a decade ago, that school was years in the making and became HBAED, not everyones desired outcome. If groups of parents get behind local schools (and within two miles is local) it benefits everyone.

I am not against the new free school, I respect the enthusiasm and time steering group members are putting in, it really is not an easy task. But it could take years, and still many local kids may not get places.

If I have learnt anything from my sons secondary transfer experience its get behind your local schools that are available to you, your children and the community can all benefit.

[Jessie]

I'd be very surprised if Peckham Academy will have free places in 2016.

[kristymac1]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I reckon 40 people with children interested in

> setting up a new school is good enough for me. I

> actually don't see any need for a proper

> constitution, terms and rules and regulations in

> this instance. The aim is to set up a new school

> and as far as I can see this is happening swiftly

> and efficiently and with, as far as I can gather,

> very little internal opposition as to the

> direction of travel. Some people on this forum

> don't want one and that's fine but enough do.

>

But my understanding is that the Steering Group is now 'closed' to any new members - it wouldn't be too difficult to ensure that there is a reasonably representative demographic on that group - where did most of the Steering Group first hear about the campaign I wonder? On here, the EDF? Not everyone with a vested interest in their child's school provision reads the Forum. I understand that the Steering Group have contacted parents through the schools (book bags, P&F mailings etc) but this was done AFTER the decision was made on which providers to approach.

BTW, I want this to happen, I want there to be good co-ed choice in the area, but I would like it to progress on the basis of transparency and inclusivity (with an firm eye on pragmatism too)

[TE44]

Shuggy, local goverment made the prposal for the two schools to be amalgamated. Isn't the provider involved with the confidentiality agreement, once more, can you tell me the reason forthis.

ITatm, I agree about travelling, when my oldest child started secondary there wasn't one school in peckham that

offered over 16 education. I was not living in Dulwich then, but we were happy with the school we choose, I also

went the first few weeks with my son, until he made a new freind that lived near attending the same school. Up until

secondary my children had never walked to primary alone, although only 15min walk, there were two main roads and as someone has said, often there was trouble with kids on the street. Yes the bus could take long, as they got older they walked home. I followed the progress of charter school opening, although many peple in my area felt our children

had been abanded in relation to choices in local schools.

As far as resistance, james has commented on the resistance from local council, and the turn around regarding this school but does notexplain the reasoning.

[bornagain]

I have roughly put together two maps with catchments of local schools in place. The size of the circles represent 1km from each school (which I believe is about the last distance given for Charter, the most popular school). I think all schools in the locality - Charter, Peckham Academy, Harris Boys, Harris Girls, Haberdashers, Elm Green, Evelyn Grace, Forest Hill Boys and Sydenham Girls - all select on distance.

The bottom right hand corner is covered by Sydenham Girls and Forest Hill Boys but as the actual schools are (just) off the map, I couldn't put accurate circles there. I think you can take the Harris Boys and Girls together so that they cover the combined area for the provision of places for both boys and girls. Don't forget there are places at Kingsdale, grammars and private schools on top of this.

The second map adds the proposed new school in grey.

What strikes me first of all is that although people keep talking about the educational black hole that is East Dulwich - where is it? The map shows that most people living in ED is in catchment for at least one school at the moment. Doesn't quite make sense. My guess is that many people rule out single sexed schools wanting coed (especially if they have a boy and a girl so one can get in on sibling).

So we add the new school. If it is going to be the hospital site, it is so poorly positioned that some people are in catchment of 3 schools but others in the areas nearer Honor Oak and Nunhead it hardly makes a difference.

An option that is often discussed is to get Harris Boys and Girls to merge. I think the site that the Girl's school is on is large so perhaps there is potential for expansion there. If the education system was run in a strategic way through a central planning body, then you could probably force the school to do that. As it is you can't.

[James Barber]

Hi bornagain,

We've had lots of documentation issued by Southwark Concil since late 2009 showing an increasing number of children in the area. Originally referred to as a bulge which is now viewed as a plateau. It's height for primary school children is believed to be September 2016 with 215-235 extra reception places required for the Dulwic area alone. That an extra 3-4 schools in addition to the existing 6. WE've had one open Judith Kerr, the next will open this September from Harris. We still need a third.

The 2009 reception children will need a secondary school Sept 2016 when our new school is porposed to open. We also know the propensity to leave the area has declined with improving primary schools and economic issues. A new excellent provider of secondary schools will help us hold onto more families.

A Southwark Council cabinet report will be issued 19 March which collates miuch of this information about secondary school places and the writers of this report have concurred with our points.

Hi kirstmac1,

On the basis of how we're running this campaign we have over 400 families opting in so far. I expect lots more over the next few months. If you have an alternative proposition from a new secondary school then I look forward to hearing it.

The free school process is about applying to set up a school that they wish to provide. It isn't a procurement process and it isn't a referendum.

The Steering Group are a group of local parenting volunteering from all the supporters we've received. We're hopeful that the purpose of the Steering Group will come to an end when an agreed provider is made and we pass the project to that provider to run and deliver.

Yes, if the Steering Group was a long term proposition then all the things you say would make sense. But they come with an overhead that we don't need for the time we're expected to be in place. General public consultation is included in the free school application process.

For those families who don't agree with the new school. They would not be expected to apply for places. They get to vote with their feet.

[bornagain]

Thank you James. Will the report of 19th March be circulated?

You mention 2 primaries. I thought there was going to be a Dulwich Hamlet sponsored primary in Bellenden too?

The thing with secondary schools as compared to primary is that the students can travel much further so the schools do not have to be on their doorstep.

When will there be a public consultation about the proposed new school? Have local residents (ie not parents) opinions been canvassed?

[grabot]

James, does this mean that the extra demand cannot be satisfied by the Peckham academy as was suggested in an earlier post?

[kristymac1]

James Barber Wrote:

> Hi kirstmac1,

> On the basis of how we're running this campaign we

> have over 400 families opting in so far. I expect

> lots more over the next few months. If you have an

> alternative proposition from a new secondary

> school then I look forward to hearing it.

I am one of the families who is supporting the campaign and I'm not aware of how the Steering Group made the decision to narrow down the choice to 2 providers. I object to your stance that if I can't offer an alternative then I just have to go along with what a (small) minority have decided - that is so arrogant.

> The free school process is about applying to set

> up a school that they wish to provide. It isn't a

> procurement process and it isn't a referendum.

> The Steering Group are a group of local parenting

> volunteering from all the supporters we've

> received. We're hopeful that the purpose of the

> Steering Group will come to an end when an agreed

> provider is made and we pass the project to that

> provider to run and deliver.

But the Steering Group must have some process in place for deciding who that provider will be - its not unreasonable to ask that question is it?

> Yes, if the Steering Group was a long term

> proposition then all the things you say would make

> sense. But they come with an overhead that we

> don't need for the time we're expected to be in

> place. General public consultation is included in

> the free school application process.

Won't that public consultation be run by the chosen provider though? Seems to me there are enough people with strong feelings towards different providers I would like to know how the Steering Group narrowed the 'choice' down to 2 (again!)

> For those families who don't agree with the new

> school. They would not be expected to apply for

> places. They get to vote with their feet.

Well that's alright then. Unbelievable arrogance.

[James Barber]

Hi bornagain,

The Belham school is in the Camberwell area and is needed to cope their equally huge extra reception places demand.

Hi grabot,

Indeed. If it could the Aylesbury secondary school opening this September wouldnt be needed. We really do have an unprecendented torrent of extra school place demand.

Hi kristymac1,

We've already listed here the requirements Steering Group decision on our requirements. We'll also obviously consider the delivery capability of any provider.

I anticipate the decision we take having a clear explanation of how we reached it. Supporters can rthen withdraw their support. One of the joys with obvious disbenefits is the Steering Group is able to make quick decisions.

[simonethebeaver]

Hi Kristy. I think James is feeling a bit under fire from some of the posts and unfortunately got a bit heated all round.

Of course you want to know how the decision was made, and why the provider in question approached in the first place. We started on the basis of what seemed to be agreed that we wanted, as said often on here, a co-ed, non faith, non-selective secondary school. We then thought of a wide range of potential providers, and it was a very lengthy discussion with a lot of ideas that were fed in from conversations that steering group members had had with people. Eventually we settled on some that we felt would be more than acceptable to local parents owing to track record and their ability to set up a school within the timescale we were looking at. Those names are confidential at the moment as negotiations are sensitive but we are confident that if and when we can go ahead and announce it, parents will be pleased. We will also be happy to explain exactly why we chose that provider but basically it will be because it fits the needs of the supporters so far as anything can. If we are in any doubt about which is the right provider then we will seek further input.

We're making sure that the names of steering group members are known at their schools so any parents will be able to discuss their concerns directly with someone in person or by phone or email. We are at the end of the day not elected or part of any accountable structure but we are all parents working towards the same aim. There is no conspiracy at work, simply the need to observe internal governance processes in the relevant organisations.

Also ultimately it will always be the case that some people may not be happy. Those parents would have the choice not to use the school. If we as a group of local parents were not doing this, it may well be a group of people with a niche view, or strong religious links, or unusual educational ideas putting forward a bid and sadly the legislation means that Southwark would be obliged to consider that bid. At least we are hoping to appeal to the great majority of parents.

[bornagain]

James said:

The Belham school is in the Camberwell area and is needed to cope their equally huge extra reception places demand.

I didn't realise that primaries were assigned to such a small area. Does it affect it's intake/catchment?

Also you did not answer my other two questions:

Will the report of 19th March be circulated?

When will there be a public consultation about the proposed new school? Have local residents (ie not parents) opinions been canvassed?

I am particularly interested about the latter quesion. Thanks.

[simonethebeaver]

Hi bornagain. All free school proposals have a consultation phase during which anyone at all can comment on pretty much every aspect of it. Also any planning application to use the Dulwich Hospital site will be subject to the usual planning process, so obviously objections can be made.

[bornagain]

Thank you simone, so it is far from a done deal then.

Is anyone looking at a plan B? I hope so as it is the kind of thinking/planning that should be going on.

[simonethebeaver]

Plan Bs are definitely not off the table given that we do not yet have a firm provider. Also, and I say this entirely minus pique I promise!, if we choose a provider that people do NOT want (and I really, really don't think most people will feel that way) then there is nothing at all to stop supporters removing their support and approaching other providers. None of the steering group members have any hidden agendas or connections.

[James Barber]

Hi Bornagain,

Sorry, yes the Cabinet paper report should be public domain on the Southwark website fromthe 19th. Sometimes it happens overnight so definately for the 20th.

If you can;t find it email and I'll reply with a URL for you.

Their is no obvious plan B. The only site available is the Dulwich Hospital site. We need the new school for September 2016.

[kristymac1]

Thank you Simone.

I have the upmost respect for the efforts that the Steering group are going to, I am aware of the undertaking involved so sincerely, thank you.

Provision of Education for our children is an extremely emotive subject and it's impossible for it not to get heated on occasion - however transparency and dialogue go a long way to dampen the flames......

[dhjs]

Factual accuracy:

The proposed new school run by the Dulwich Hamlet Educational Trust will serve the Bellenden/Peckham community and not Camberwell as stated a few posts previously. Admissions will be based upon distance from a central point at the school, which will be sited in the Old Bellenden building on Bellenden Road -if all goes to plan. There is an interview at the Department for Education next week, when our educational vision and our capacity to open and run an outstanding school will be put to the test.

There is a need for additional reception places across the borough from 2014 onwards, and a new two form entry primary school is one of the solutions offered by Southwark LA, along with permanent expansion plans for other maintained Southwark schools. We are delighted to be the provider (we hope) of the new school, and can't wait to get started.

[James Barber]

The Bellenden old school site is in South Camberwell ward which is formally part of Camberwell Community Council and Southwark Council views it as part of Camberwell but practically it's much closer to Peckham and for that matter East Dulwich.

Apologies for slipping in Southwark Council-ease.

I'm sure Dulwich Hamlet won't need it for their interview next week - but good luck and hope it all goes to plan.

[bornagain]

I've had a read of Southwark's School Place Strategy Update that James mentioned earlier (thank you James). Interesting and I thought I would share some of the highlights with you in the hope that it may give some context to your new free school proposal and Southwark's take on their priorities and concerns.

One very good thing mentioned is how good Southwark's secondary schools are - latest GCSE results take Southwark to 33rd best authority (in top 25% in the country) and the most improved London borough with average GCSE results well above national average. Not bad for a borough that is so diverse and has large areas of poverty and deprivation.

The pressure right now in the next 2-3 years is to find funding and provision for increased primary places. They need to find up to 23 extra forms of entry (FE) for primary by Sept 2016. They have planned for around 21 FE of these already but all extra school funding they can secure until then will be for this extra provision - ie none available for secondary until these are sorted.

More of the increased demand for places are in the north of the borough - Bermondsey, Rotherhythe etc. Which surely will impact the secondary need in the long term. The entire area around the Elephant is a huge regeneration project as well as Bermondsey and the area around Canada Water. Southwark's focus is on that and the new demands that this will generate. Personally I am hopeful that the regeneration will bring more mixed dwellings which will impact positively on the local schools (I hope that is a polite way of saying it and will offend noone ;))

As for secondary, some interesting info:

1. There is over capacity in the secondary provision across the borough until 2016.

2. 80% of unused capacity currently are due to under subscription of certains schools. Mentions some schools have 1000+ applications for yr 7 places where as others are only 200+ for same size. My interpretation is that this is due to parental choice.

3. Due to this, there is concern that some schools may become unviable and may have to close. There is worry that if more schools are set up, this will jeopardise these schools - with loss not only of school places but jobs.

4. In 2012 four very popular schools were assessed as having potential for extra capacity. This includes Kingsdale and Bacon's (both schools used by ED students). This gives places for 10FE. This theoretically would provide enough places until 2018 for the borough.

5. They are planning further assessments to see if other schools can expand. For eg. Charter has some derelict property next to it - perhaps this is an expansion opportunity?

6. It is noted that secondary provision is hard to plan as students can travel further and often go to schools out of borough. Talk of liaising with neighbouring boroughs.

7. Free schools/academies and parental choice and 'local pressure' (ED free school proposal was mentioned in this) are wild cards which I got the feeling that Southwark was obliged to consider but had little control over. It is theoretically possible to provide all extra places going into the future by expanding existing schools.

I am glad I read this report as its given me a much greater understanding on the background to what is going on locally. My take on it is that the free school is a local indulgence, particularly if it is sited on the hospital site. An impartial observer would probably address the shortage by boosting and improving the unpopular schools and work with existing popular schools to help them to increase their provision. We've all got to hold on to the fact that schools in Southwark are good.

[redjam]

That's an interesting post, bornagain. Is this the report that's going online on the 20th? I've just done a search for it and can't find it.

I guess the bit that's leaping out at me from your post is your first point: 1. There is over capacity in the secondary provision across the borough UNTIL 2016.

What happens in 2016 if no new schools are built? Tough luck for those kids who don't get in anywhere?

As for supporting existing failing schools, I completely agree with this in theory. But you can see why it's not a particularly appealing thought for local parents to think that their kids' fate is to plug up the empty spaces in the less popular schools in the borough, wherever they may be. Realistically, parents will just move away rather than do that.

I should say I'm not a supporter of free schools in general. I wish we didn't have this fractured system - it's a mess. But with the huge baby boom IN THIS AREA, it does seem sensible that a new school would open here. (Or expand an existing successful one like Charter, but I've not heard that as a realistic option before - would be delighted to be proved wrong!)

[intexasatthe moment]

Would have thought that Academy @Peckham has room to expand - their playground lokks bigger than the footprint of ED boys .But in any case with new Aylesbury school opening I presume less pressure on places in peckham .