Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[bornagain]

Building a new school is not to be undertaken lightly. I am not saying don't build the school but we should think and plan on a regional level before we do. Unfortunately as the current education policy and their use of academies and free schools have meant that really no one is in charge of the overall set up for the area.

It costs tens of MILLIONS of pounds to build and staff. It is not just for the next few years, but for the next few decades. It is an investment for the local community - one that we should ensure that we (ie the community) really needs.

[Coach Beth]

So sorry to be concerned about the education of my child and his classmates at his inner city state school. I suppose we could have a two year long consultation and then a research study to find out that most parents want a good, coed non faith school delivering a comprehensive education. While we do that, those who can will continue to buy or rent a house near Charter or move to Orpington or send their children to private school. Oh yes, that is the non selfish action for sure. Anyway, this is becoming an ideological argument that is not benefitting anyone.

[mrs.lotte]

Bornagain do you know that it is not needed despite the explosion of need in 2009 and more people moving into the area and less leaving? or is that just your guess? Based on what?

This is about places, there won't be enough, so new places needed. If that means building a new school then best build one that caters to the maximum number ie non faith and co ed.

[Shuggy]

Bornagain--So you DON'T think think that this area needs to increase its secondary place provision? Despite what the demographics clearly show?

I agree that we should think and plan on a regional level, but that is not something we can control. What we can do, and did, was seek and get cross-party political backing.

I don't understand why you think we are taking this "lightly". Yes, we are amateurs but we have no intention of setting up or running the school. The provider will do that, one which we will have an exceptional track record of running schools already.

I don't know why you think we want a school "to be built just for your children!"

If you look at these criteria these all have wide-spread support. That's why we decided on them. These were all very basic requirements that parents said that they would prefer.

Co-Ed: Not one person has said they want a single sex school. Harris boys and girls already provide that locally.

Non-Faith: Not one person has said they want a religious school. I'm sure there are plenty about but I don't think there is any need to look it up.

Walking distance: Not one person has said they would prefer their kids to commute to school. We want a fair admissions policy that is somehow based on distance. Otherwise what is the point? The demographic problem that has been identified is here, so what is the point building a selective school busing in children from far and wide?

I don't think that is being 'particular'. It is hardly some exclusive 'wish-list'. These are very simple criteria for a local state school .

[Shuggy]

bornagain -- My response is obviously to your post before you edited it.

[bornagain]

I am sorry to have wound you both up - probably a step too far. As I have said before though, I am very interested in the educational provision in this area and it is important to put other points of view out there and have a discussion.

I am so sorry that you are both so stressed about your own situation.

[Jessie]

The thought of putting my occasinally vulnerable and incredibly dyspraxic son on a bus to some far flung part of south London is absurd. He'd probably end up in Paris. And after going through the primary school debacle, I'm pretty confident in saying we do need to invest in a local secondary, for now and for decades to come.

[bornagain]

I don't think I've ever said that this area does not need a new school. All I have said (again and again) is that we need to look at education provision for the region as a whole (ie not just ED) and look at the provision not just for the next few years but for the future. Everyone seems so fixed on this proposed new school that any other ideas to provide places seems to be rejected.

What happens to your children in the next few years concern those of you on this thread. But there needs to be someone out there that should be looking out for what happens in education not just in the next few years but in the years beyond that. And there isn't because the system is now a free for all because of the current government policy. That is all.

[Coach Beth]

The irony of this is that I am a Quaker and would love my child to go to a Quaker school! But I have no desire to a) impose my beliefs on anyone else and b)send my kid to a school where he is surrounded by others just like him. I want him to go a good, diverse local school where he will get a broad comprehensive education.

[TE44]

Is the steering group recieving help or guidance with the application, did parents have educational institutions in

mind, of course I know theres a confidentiality agreement, and understand the group representing parents and locals

may feel put in a position of secrecy, but i am interested in the process, who is involved besides the providers,for

whatever reason that has not been divulged.

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/01/tory-council-to-close-award-winning-primary-so-a-free-school-can-have-its-land/

heres a link where two London primary schools were amalgamated, one being under subscibed, creating space for a free secondary school. Its surprising how much power local goverment have.

http://www.fulhamsw6.com/default.asp?section=info&page=sulivan014.htm

I think there's lessons to be learnt outside of our own area, i'm sure james would attach what happened th

Sulivan school to the Tory party.

Can anyone tell me what's happening on 31st march, decision????

[Shuggy]

TE44--no the steering group is not receiving guidance with the application as we don't intend to make the application. The idea is for a provider to take over and handle things before then.

We did discuss educational institutions that we would like to approach once we had gauged the lack of appetite for an academy chain (Harris being the main one in this area).

There is no other party involved that hasn't been divulged.

It is truly disgraceful what happened to Sulivan Primary. The situation here is quite different though. No school is being taken over, or closed. No site is being taken over and no provider will be forced on anyone. We are looking to bring in extra school places to an area where they are required.

We should be clear on the intentions of a provider, and be able to say so I should hope, from 31st March.

[bornagain]

Do you have a plan B if the hospital site is not available or is it pretty much a shoo-in?

[intexasatthe moment]

"an ideological argument that is not benefitting anyone. "

I love the idea that discussing the wider implications of spending millions of pounds doesn't benefit anyone .

But the " anyone " would be the parents in East Dulwich who have children who are coming up to secondary school transfer ,wouldn't it ?

It's exactly that very narrow focus that 10 years ago saw no one concerned about Southwark handing over all secondary schools to "sponsors " like Harris . So that we now have the problems that we do today - a fragmented education provision with schools determining their own admissions policies and competing against eachother .

[bornagain]

Also re: the proposed site, I know that it appears to be pretty much the only available site in the surrounding area but I have reservations about its suitability for a secondary school.

I know that area well and have used the roads before and after school. There are three large secondary schools in very close proximity already and you are proposing a fourth. At the moment the entry and exit of the students are carefully orchestrated so that the students from the three schools are not all disgorging onto the streets at the same time. This will be much trickier with a fourth added to the mix.

Many of you have a romantic notion of children walking to school peacefully with their friends but the reality is that this is the time when bullying happens the most - on the journeys to and fro the school. The teens are no longer under the eagle gaze of their teachers and some quite horrific incidents happen. I know, I have been a secondary school teacher.

Added to that there tends to be a gang-like hostility between neighbouring schools (eg. there is one between Charter and Kingsdale) so local residents may not be that happy with hoards of squabbling teens walking up and down East Dulwich Grove.

Which leads me to the question, has any opinions been canvassed around the locality of the proposed school? Does anyone know what the procedure is? Will there be something like a planning application so that local people can express an opinion?

[grabot]

Itexasatthe moment. Do you have a credible plan for winning the ideological battle and building a much needed school in the next year or so?

[James Barber]

Hi bornagain,

You are so wrong. Many families move away from the area for decent school places. This fragments our community and means many move here expecting to not make long term plans. The numbers mean we need another local secondary school.

The Tony Blair education act created the situation making what he called academies what the current government call free school academies the main route for new schools. By leaidng a cmapaign we can select who we want to open a school rather than waiting around for any provider to make it happen.

Hi Denmothersmith,

I also have huge concerns about a 4 form entry for Ivydale. This is contrary to all the advice I've received from Southwark Education Improvementment Managers. This is more about the councils aversion to free schools than whats good for local kids.

[TE44]

Thanks Shuggy, I meant the reason for not divulging the provider. (I was not clear),

I think it would have been better if local people could have had some input on the provider, we were told

Haberdashers or prendergast, I'm assuming its between those.

I realise the steering group can't say, bbut with info previously

given, I do not understand the secrecy. Lets hope there more forthcoming

with other news, it does not give me confidence that this venture is parent driven.

Regarding the planning situation for the hospital site, I would be worried about the power local goverment

has, as can be seen in my link above regArding Sulivan school. Whos to say in the near future who will be

elected. Although its always the same, they started it.

I'm wondering if this confidential agreement is a legal requirement, if not, I think there should have been

A question over any provider who thinks its ok to not give any explenation fot why this must be.

[intexasatthe moment]

grabot my plan would be to take a less short term view ,to stop focusing on the perceived need to have a school within walking distance and to take the longer route of getting Southwark to open another school .

And in the meantime encouraging local families to get together and apply en masse to The Academy at Peckham - a local school with loads of space ,excellent facilities ,co ed ,non faith and just waiting ,as Kingsdale did ,for an injection of middle class families and their children .

To look further afield at other schools in London and to stop regarding being able to walk to a local school as such an important factor . Many of us have accessed other schools which have entailed travel ,and those of us with children who have problems with organisational skills have found that in the long run this benefits their child in developing skills which will help them cope in the world after school . I had to travel with my similarly challenged son for the first few months of his secondary school career - we didn't sit together and it meant difficult choices regarding my working hours but I made it work because I had to . And the benefits to him in learning how to use public transport in London outweighed the disadvantages to me .

And to campaign for the re introduction of the ILEA so that there can be a London wide strategic plan for education across London . Or is it preferable that a few more million pounds be spent when the parents in the Nunhead/Ivydale want

a secondary school they can walk to ? There's not a limitless supply of cash ,if it's spent in one place it can't be spent elsewhere .

I appreciate that these are long term aims and less palatable than an immediate gratification of wishes , but this short term , what I want is more important than any other factor is what has led to the current situation .

And yes I do know what it's like to have a child and try without success to get them into my local preferred primary and

secondary school .

[bornagain]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi bornagain,

> You are so wrong. Many families move away from the

> area for decent school places. This fragments our

> community and means many move here expecting to

> not make long term plans. The numbers mean we need

> another local secondary school.

>

> The Tony Blair education act created the situation

> making what he called academies what the current

> government call free school academies the main

> route for new schools. By leaidng a cmapaign we

> can select who we want to open a school rather

> than waiting around for any provider to make it

> happen.

>

James, in what way am I wrong? Wrong for challenging you or wrong for speculating about the situation? If you can come up with some firm data about the demographics of the area now and projected into the future (and not just the next few years) then we can have a real discussion.

I am sorry that I'm being pedantic but saying nebulous things like 'The numbers mean we need another local secondary school.' is just not good enough when embarking on such a major undertaking.

You are proposing that we spend a very large amount of tax payer's money and I think that as our elected representative you should take seriously your responsibility to be accountable.

The parents on this thread are quite rightly anxious about the education of their children, but we have elected you to represent all of us - not just the parents and their families.

And Tony Blair doesn't even come into it!

[kristymac1]

I think it would be very useful if there was more information and transparency on the actual set up of the Steering Group. This group is potentially making an enormous decision (presumably) on behalf of parents and children in the local area. I would like to see clear terms of reference for the Steering group and how it was and will be constituted going forward.

I'm unconvinced by the 'canvassing of parents concluded that Harris' would not be approached' - that decision seems to have been taken very early on in the discussions and whilst I have no particular vested interest in any provider it seems very wrong for only two providers to have been approached without any genuine discussions with the community. 'Too many Harris'' is also not a valid argument, and the idea that the chosen provider will creat 'more choice' in the area is just plain backwards if the pool of providers to choose from is narrowed down to two and before proper consultation, thus removing any real 'choice' at all.

Without Terms of reference and constitutional rules & regulations, the Steering group, I'm afraid, is not representative of the parents and children in the local area. James, you work with Committees, do you not see the importance of this?

[bornagain]

Very good post, intexas you are spot on.

[bawdy-nan]

As I understand it, from following these posts there was a suggestion that an attempt be made to establish a new school and interest was canvassed. When there seemed to be quite a few people interested it was suggested that a steering group be established and it was formed on the basis of people who were interested putting their names forward. And so they did.

The thing is, I suppose, is that the whole Free School thing just relies on people with sufficient interest putting themselves forward and making it happen. It's not about elections or accountability and can't really ever be representative of all the parents in the area - just those that asserted their desire for a new school.

Its been observed on here that its not an especially sensible way of regional planning. And it isn't. At all. It relies on (or enables) people getting together and making things happen.

I can absolutely see the downside to this as a way of strategically planning an education provision but its also a way of getting things done quickly.

I reckon 40 people with children interested in setting up a new school is good enough for me. I actually don't see any need for a proper constitution, terms and rules and regulations in this instance. The aim is to set up a new school and as far as I can see this is happening swiftly and efficiently and with, as far as I can gather, very little internal opposition as to the direction of travel. Some people on this forum don't want one and that's fine but enough do.

I'm more than satisfied with the transparency (much more so than I do by the decisions made by councils and schools generally) and feel pretty well informed.

[bornagain]

Do you have a credible plan for winning the ideological battle and building a much needed school in the next year or so?

This phrase has repeatedly come up in this discussion. Everyone is thinking about their own children who will be seeking secondary education in the 'next year or two'.

I am not convinced that it is possible to set up a school properly in such a short time. You do not have a site let alone buildings yet! I am worried that decisions will be rushed, corners cut, mistakes made.

Please consider more pragmatic options such as revitalising the Peckham Academy as suggested by intexas as well so that the school (if it does happen) is done properly.

[Shuggy]

TE44-- this venture IS parent driven. No provider is yet involved and no provider is behind the scenes pushing their wishes on us or the community. We approached them and they are not involved in the process yet in any way.

As for the site, local government has no say in how it is used so could not effect the kind of forced situation as you highlighted at Sulivan Priamry. No future council can force a change in usage either as it is not council property. The NHS currently own the site and the decision on its future will be made by the treasury and cabinet office under the Right to Contest application.

We don't have a provider yet, but I'd hope they will explain their plans and consult once their is.

[bornagain]

OMG bawdy-nan! I so agreed with your post and then? I nearly fell off my chair!

Did you really mean to say 'I actually don't see any need for a proper constitution, terms and rules and regulations in this instance. The aim is to set up a new school and as far as I can see this is happening swiftly and efficiently and with, as far as I can gather, very little internal opposition as to the direction of travel.'

I am speechless!