Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[Belle]

The Peckham Academy is Harris - and, as has been well documented here, there is a real appetite for a non-Harris secondary option locally.

[intexasatthe moment]

I appreciate that but the main driving factor is surely shortage of places . New schools opening purely to give some people an alternative would be a huge waste of tax payers money .

[Shuggy]

Yes there is a shortage of places.

Bornagain - schools need to be planned in areas where the demographics show there is a need. There are more children in this area than there used to be, which is why new primary school places were created through bulge classes.

Now those kids are at secondary age and we need provision for them. The labour council recognise and agree that we need a new secondary school IN THIS AREA.

You seem to have decided who we are and that we are motivated by snobbery. Or as you put it: "ED parents would prefer a lovely brand spanking new school in leafy ED compared to a school on a council estate in gritty Walworth (shudder - spare the thought!)"

I can't only speak for myself but you assumption is wrong, and I think adds nothing to the debate. We want our kids to be able to walk /bike to school with their friends and build their lives within their local community. If you have to travel to school you also have to travel to see any new friends you make and take part in any social activity if your school is in different area from the one you live in.

This is a black hole for secondary places, which is why we want a school here. I't's great that you are looking out for the interests of the community as a whole, but the labour council believes that a new school here IS in the interests of the community as a whole.

[James Barber]

Hi grabot,

Free schools aren't allowed to select on academic ability UNLESS its to band admissions and ensure a comprehensive mix.

Hi bornagain,

It is indeed daft to build a school people won't send their kids to. I don't think we'll have any problems filling a new secondary school in ED.

As shaggy has related we have a looming places crisis locally. People already move out of the area and indeed London to ensure great secondary school places. We will solve this for our area.

Aylesbury estate is going to be rebuilt and will have many many more residents than it does now.

[bornagain]

Shuggy, I do not blame you for pressing for what you want. I would not expect any less.

It is true though that there is a north/south divide in the borough socio-economically and it would be disingenuous to say otherwise. You may be happy to send your kids to those schools but many others wouldn't.

My criticism really is towards the system - Southwark and the politicians. There is no strategic plan for education provision in the borough. From what James just said, with just a bit of pressure from him, Southwark has gone from one stance (i.e. no need for new school) to agreeing to having one. What kind of strategy is that?

By the way do you have a site yet for the proposed school? Is it going to be on the hospital site?

[Belle]

I can't speak for the council, but it's possible that they have listened to numbers - as pointed out above, the campaign has really burgeoned over the last few weeks.

This campaign is for a local secondary school. I can't see why anyone would argue for kids to be bussed out of the area, particularly when there's now an opportunity for provision on our doorstep.

As others have said - maybe free schooling is a flawed policy. I don't know. But what I do feel strongly about is local education for local kids. Given the time constraints, and the increasing pressure on existing provision, I cannot see another way - so my preference is to get behind the campaign and help to steer it to ensure the fairest solution.

[Shuggy]

No problem bornagain, I understand that. The hospital site is really the only space big enough to accommodate the school in the area. Hopefully we should get some news in the next couple of weeks regarding a Right to Contest application. We imagine it would be a shared site with a new medical facility occupying roughly a third of the 27,000 m2 site and school would take the rest.

[bawdy-nan]

Hello - could you post the groups's twitter handle and link to a facebook page - I;d like to follow - thank you

[bawdy-nan]

aha - found it! @newschdulwich

[dontpanic]

Yes it's @NewSchDulwich and www.facebook.com/NewSchDulwich

[intexasatthe moment]

Somehow there are things about this campaign that are beginning to sound wrong to me .

This fear of " bussing out of the area " , a Dulwich school for Dulwich kids that they can walk to . Why so intensely local ? Especially against a background of there being vacancies at a school which is ( for example from the hospital site ) one 10 minute bus ride away .

This is secondary school ,not primary school . This is London not some isolated rural village .

I agree with bornagain about the lack of a strategic plan . It seems as though the current system is weighted ( as always )in favour of those who are articulate and can shout loudest . They'll get the attention and a shiny new school .

Surely such an approach will lead to sink schools in deprived areas and thriving schools where admission is down to people buying into the area in affluent areas ?

[bornagain]

Education provision like health provision is far too important to be left to the whim of elected politicians and local pressure groups. I don't blame local parents for wanting good education for their children. Of course they will put their all into agitating for something fantastic to be provided. And of course those with the loudest voices and best connections will be heard.

But the system should be robust enough to take a dispassionate view of the whole picture, both geographically and also into the future. Education provision should not be decided by elected politicans campaigning with their next re-election in mind (sorry James, but if you are honest with yourself, this does play a part in your activities). Who is to say that East Dulwich is going to remain nappy valley for ever. If you read other threads on this forum it appears that families are moving out in droves. We have to only look at Kingsdale to see an example of a school that was at one time so unpopular that no one locally would touch with a barge pole. Kids were bussed in from as far as away as Bermondsley. Now look at it. It took a team with strategic vision to turn it around. This is what we should be doing with these less popular schools in the borough.

But this can only happen if there is an institution - Southwark comes to mind - that can taken a strategic view and taken ownership of the entire education system both now and into the future.

[DenmotherSmith]

I agree that there seems a very misguided approach to school places provision in southwark. The council is asking Ivydale to expand to a 'mega' primary 4 form entry school and when those kids leave year six where will they go? There is little appetite for Harris and single sex schools, the new parent led free school on the hospital site will no doubt end up like Charter with a small catchment, Askes proposed change to admissions will also leave Ivydale kids less likely to gain places.No doubt leaving Ivydale with a sparse year 5 and 6 as families move away. Is anyone at southwark education thinking their ideas through?

[bornagain]

But DenmotherSmith, to be fair to Southwark education, they are largely toothless due to the current government's policy. All the secondary schools in the borough are academies which basically means that they can do what they like to a certain extent. It is a mess.

[DenmotherSmith]

It certainly is. Free schos are destined to be a playground for niche groups..... So uncomfortable when something you disagree with is your only option.

[Coach Beth]

I would be happy for my son to go to Harris Boys - although I would prefer co-ed - but that is rapidly gaining in popularity and my son's year was the first one to have bulge classes at primary school so I can foresee that there is a good chance he might not get in there in a couple years. So personally, although I agree that a strategic approach would be far, far best, the reality is that new schools cannot open unless they are free schools or academies. We are fairly happy (if abit squashed) in our 2 bed flat in East Dulwich so I don't know even if we could afford to buy a place near Charter, we would even do that. Sadly, if you aren't in the niche of being able to buy or rent within 5 minutes of Charter, you have no chance of getting in.

Those of us with children in year 4 and younger had to deal with bulge classes every year - I think this year there were about 5 bulge classes at local ED primary schools? That is 150 extra children (a conservative estimate) a year that will need secondary school places in two years. And that's just in East Dulwich - nevermind other areas of Southwark. There will be a big strain on secondary school places starting in 2016 and it's great something is being done now.

[DenmotherSmith]

I wonder if the feedback from this forum re a new secondary school and the numbers signing up to support a new co-ed secondary could be used to encourage Harris to adopt a more co-ed approach to Harris Boys and Girls? They could do more extra-curricular stuff together ( I have sons in HBAED)....... Just a thought. (Might need to redact all the "anything but Harris" comments in thread or else Lord Harris might cry......

[intexasatthe moment]

But vacancies in other local secondary schools - Academy @Peckham and other good schools - Deptford Green ,Pimlico Academy ,Forest Hill Boys and Sydenham Girls with their coed sixth form within perfectly reasonable travelling distance .

And no doubt others .

And a school run by Southwark which I note that James is now saying is possible but would take longer .

[bornagain]

"And a school run by Southwark which I note that James is now saying is possible but would take longer ."

Intexas, which school is that?

[grabot]

"But vacancies in other local secondary schools - Academy @Peckham and other good schools - Deptford Green ,Pimlico Academy ,Forest Hill Boys and Sydenham Girls with their coed sixth form within perfectly reasonable travelling distance .

And no doubt others "

That is now. I think that the point that a lot of people are making is that there has been a significant bulge in junior school place demand, throughout London, that will be coming through the system in a few years time.

Is Pimlico Academy really a reasonable travelling distance? I would estimate at least an hour door-to-door. I know that if you want to get your child into the "best" school, it is a price you pay. But, many people want their kids education to be combined with being part of a wider community. This doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Belle]

Two of the schools mentioned are single sex, there's a demand locally for something which is co-educational. That's something I personally feel very strongly in favour of.

[bornagain]

You can get to Pimlico Academy by just sitting on the 185 bus and getting off just after Vauxhall. It is much closer than the Oratory or Greycoats to which many children go from here. Also I am not quite sure what you mean by 'being part of a wider community'? Surely travelling to an area outside Dulwich will combine you with the wider London community?

I do see your point that there have been several bulge classes in the last few years which will have to be accomodated in secondary soon but who knows whether this is going to be a permanent increase in school age children in this area or just a blip? Has anyone tried to find out? This is the kind of information that a strategic body could gather so that wise and not knee jerk plans can be made.

There could well be a scenario in few years time where property in ED is so expensive that most young families other than those that are very rich are priced out of living here. Those that remain will send their children to private schools. What will happen to the proposed school then - they will be half empty - what a waste!

[grabot]

In my mind waiting at a bus stop, followed by a long bus journey does not create a sense of community. To paraphrase Sartre if creates plurality of isolations. Walking to school and seeing your friends en route is the opposite.

[mrs.lotte]

In 2009 the local authority had totally failed to plan for the rising birth rate and there were an awful lot of families with no school place. We obtained a place for our son at Goose Green (a local school that was in special measures and traditionally overlooked) that year even the special measures school was oversubscribed and people living in ED were on waiting lists for it for some time. Since then there bulge classes have been necessary every year (that's 5 years of bulges - so far)

I have been very concerned that no planning was taking place for accommodating those children in secondary. The fact there is space available now is irrelevant, there hadn't been a problem pre 2009 then suddenly there was and has been since.

So please don't tell me that I am a snob who doesn't want my kid to go to a non middle class school (in any event banding is designed to make an intake comprehensive and most schools deploy that). However it so happens I don't want my dyspraxic son to have to take a trip across town every day, that has nothing to do with snobbery either.

Personally I am delighted that there is some pre planning about provision and that there is a real possibility that a local non faith co ed school that my children could walk to might happen. I suspect that I am not alone but many are put off saying so by the suggestion that they are snobs or racists when in fact they, like me, know that there is an imminent dearth of places.

I support the campaign. For the sake of transparency I am also part of the steering group. I'm also not anti Harris (quite the opposite I have looked around Harris boys and loved it) but I seriously doubt that my son would secure a place and, not unreasonably I believe, would like my son and daughter to go to the same school.

This has to be up and running by Sept 2016.

Obviously people are entitled to their ideological objections but I believe that I speak from an informed position when I say that there will be a need for these extra places in 2016 and "wait and see" really isn't an option.

[Coach Beth]

For at least 4 years now, bulge classes have been put on at primary schools in Southwark. They are building a new primary in East Dulwich and a new primary school at Bellenden Road and a new primary school at Peckham Academy. Plus the expansion plans at Ivydale as have been mentioned. And then, all the schools in neighboring boroughs like lewisham whose primary schools are bursting at the seams. SO the worry of parents of children in year 4 and under is WHERE ARE ALL THOSE CHILDREN GOING TO GO TO SECONDARY SCHOOL? Yes, I would be very happy with Deptford Green or Bacon's College but in two years I imagine the catchments for those schools will have shrunk dramatically - already I think Deptford Green isn't a viable option as it's improved results and new building have led to more applicants. I also do think there is something lovely about walking to school and going to friends houses after schoool. I can imagine that lots of my boy's friends (a very diverse bunch of kids) from Goose Green school would go to the new school and what's wrong with wanting continuity from primary to secondary - particularly when you think diverse the children in his year group are, it's crazy to think this will only benefit a certain section of the community.

The reality is that at Goose Green School, where my son is in year 4, there is no spare capacity in years reception to year 4 - there are 30 children in each class. Whereas the upper years, there are less children - more spare capacity as there were less primary children in the area. The situation is very different now, schools are bursting at the seams and as one poster who was recently looking to move to the area, it's nigh impoosible to find a school with spare spaces in year 4 and below and I don't think will change. I was talking to another parent at the school who is a midwife and apparently, East Dulwich has one of the highest birthrates in Europe!!! As London schools have improved, so have the desire of many people to stay in London and send their children to secondary school. I have no desire to leave London. I just want to know my child will be able to go to school at a decent, good secondary school within 30 minutes travel - foot or by bus.