Getting rid of foxes

[red devil]

Judging by the increase in the population of the urban fox, hunger isn't an issue.

As any conservationist will tell you, taming wild animals is not good for their welfare in the long term.

People who feed them are just exercising the common human trait of control.

But hey Foxy, if it makes you feel good!...

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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>

>

> I feed the foxes.. They are hungry.

>

> They even follow me all the way home from

> Lordship Lane area.

> They walk along side me.

>

> Sue on EDF a neighbour has witness how to foxes

> wait for me to come home.

>

Xxxxxx

Yes this is true.

Have seen a young fox lying on the pavement outside Foxy's home at night! We met Foxy whilst walking home from the fireworks and the fox did appear to be Waiting for him.

I have mixed feelings. Love them as creatures, love that they are living in the city, curse them when they dig huge holes in my garden and keep me awake screaming.

On balance I am glad they are around though :)

[RicB]

I think peoples mindsets need to change; a fox is a poor creature trying to do its best in its environment. Like us, it gets hungry (but has less options than us, it can?t just pop to Sainsbury?s and spend its nectar points). They have families, and babies that they try to care for. I understand that yes they can make a loud noise at night and they can deposit on your lawn, but the poor fox is just doing his business when the need arises, he doesn?t have a convenient toilet to go sit on, nature is his toilet.

What gives humans the right to think they have more right to life than another animal? Because we are superior? Because, we are smarter, or we can wipe out any other species in our way for our own selfish needs?

When I was a kid, I used to kill ants in the garden, for nothing more than because I could, how ignorant I was. Now I am saddened by those actions - just because I could squish them with my finger doesn?t mean that the ant didn?t feel pain or die a horrible death or was missed by his colony. Imagine if an alien race came here and did the same to us.

Foxes are usually quite timid and lets not forget they are related to dogs and people keep dogs (and cats for that matter) because it gives them joy and pleasure. Seeing a so called ?wild? animal in an urban environment should be classed as a treat. Those that feed foxes over time develop a bond with them (as Peckham Rose and DulwichFox?s posts suggest) and I?m sure they find it a rewarding experience that brings them joy. Perhaps if more people tried it, they would also enjoy a magical experience between man and animal. Heck people splash thousands of pounds on safaris for that very reason.

Instead of demonising the poor animals who are just trying to exist, people should try be more tolerant and sympathising. Fox family?s in Dulwich probably go back more than most current residents, so in that sense humans invaded their space first.

Now if there is a valid argument against making them totally dependent on humans is another matter. It?s probably a very complex answer depending on individual situations, but remember a fox is a resourceful creature, he will get to work to find food if the need arises. For example, when a human is hungry and goes to their cupboard and if they see the cupboard is bare, they then look in the fridge. Same with the fox, they will look elsewhere. I very much doubt the fox will say to himself, I am now tamed, so I cannot go catch a mouse.

[red devil]

RicB Wrote:

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> When I was a kid, I used to kill ants in the

> garden, for nothing more than because I could, how

> ignorant I was. Now I am saddened by those actions

> - just because I could squish them with my finger

> doesn?t mean that the ant didn?t feel pain or die

> a horrible death or was missed by his colony.

You've been watching too many Pixar/Dreamworks movies...

[EDLove]

red devil Wrote:

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> Judging by the increase in the population of the

> urban fox, hunger isn't an issue.

Is there actually an increase in the population though?

'Dr Phil Baker, an expert on urban foxes at the University of Reading states:-

"There are currently no data to suggest that the numbers of foxes in areas where they have been present for decades have increased significantly at a national level," he says.

In fact according to Baker, the only major change that has occurred in urban fox populations over the past 30 years has been down to an outbreak of sarcoptic mange, a common disease of mammals, which severely reduced fox numbers in some cities.'

I think they're perhaps just becoming a bit braver, so we're more likely to see them.

[red devil]

EDLove Wrote:

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> "There are currently no data to suggest that the

> numbers of foxes in areas where they have been

> present for decades have increased significantly

> at a national level," he says.

He's not saying they haven't increased, just that they haven't increased significantly, and that's open to interpretation.

If hunger was a problem, numbers would be falling, and even the good doctor isn't saying that...

[RicB]

red devil Wrote:

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> >

> You've been watching too many Pixar/Dreamworks

> movies...

Wow, what a great informative and witty comment based on facts no doubt. Though for you to make such a comment suggests you have also watched the same said movies.

However, in your need to feel validated as a funny, witty guy (that you, erhm, clearly are by the way), you missed the real important points of the post. Guess I shouldn?t be too surprised; there was a story this week of the UK?s education dropping down the league tables.

Also, EDLove?s post has just showed you have poor judgement so let?s just put it down to that and let bygones by bygones eh? :)

[red devil]

RicB Wrote:

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> Wow, what a great informative and witty comment

> based on facts no doubt.

Said the poster who brought aliens into the discussion...

[red devil]

RicB Wrote:

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> However, in your need to feel validated as a

> funny, witty guy (that you, erhm, clearly are by

> the way), you missed the real important points of

> the post. Guess I shouldn?t be too surprised;

> there was a story this week of the UK?s education

> dropping down the league tables.

You managed to defeat your own argument in your post.

I'll leave you to your intellectural superiority to work that one out...

[red devil]

RicB Wrote:

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> Also, EDLove?s post has just showed you have poor

> judgement so let?s just put it down to that and

> let bygones by bygones eh? :)

Or you could just read my reply... :))

[RicB]

red devil Wrote:

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> RicB Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Wow, what a great informative and witty comment

> > based on facts no doubt.

>

> Said the poster who brought aliens into the

> discussion...

I said IMAGINE if aliens did the same to illustrate a point. Imagination isn't necessarily based on facts. Looks like your judgement is 0/3. Oh dear, still early days, but looks like a trend is developing.

[*Bob*]

The big question ..

[red devil]

RicB Wrote:

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> I said IMAGINE if aliens did the same to

> illustrate a point. Imagination isn't necessarily

> based on facts. Looks like your judgement is 0/3.

> Oh dear, still early days, but looks like a trend

> is developing.

You're not very good at this are you?

I cited your 'aliens' example because it was a non-factual point, something you were criticising me for...you can't have it both ways. Or maybe you can in your self-righteous world.

Would you like me in future to give explanatory sub-titles?

I CAN CAPITALISE THEM IF THAT WILL HELP...

[Sue]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> The big question ..

>

> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?2

> 0,file=116852

xxxxxx

Excellent!

So DO ants have funerals?

I've just wasted (another) five minutes of my life googling it, but hey it was worth it:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120509064633AAeW30w

[*Bob*]

It was worth reading down just to see the contributor with the username 'racially ambiguous hottie'.

[DulwichFox]

Well it was a thread about Foxes with differing views from various posters.

Some interesting discussion.. from both sides..

Looks like *Bob* has done what he does best by hijacking the thread with something totally unrelated.

If you have no interest in talking about Foxes and want to talk about Ants, please feel free to start

a new thread..

DulwichFox.

[*Bob*]

I realise you've got a boner for foxes, Foxy, but this is the lounge, not the 'rigidly stick to discussing foxes room'.

If you want to discuss foxes and only foxes in a rigid 'foxes only' fashion with like-minded individuals, then I'm sure there are 'speciality websites' out there somewhere for you.

[edcam]

Maybe there should be a thread for foxes and their admirers?

[DulwichFox]

*Bob* I did not start the thread.

a boner for foxes.... ?? You are ignorant man..

Like wise:-

If you want to discuss Ants I'm sure there are 'speciality websites' out there somewhere for you too.

DF.

[*Bob*]

Foxy, if you look - you know - using your "eyes" - you will "see" that not only did I not start the thread either, I also did not start the talking about Ants. Or Aliens. Somebody else did, hours earlier.

[*Bob*]

PHWOOOAARRR!!!

[Sue]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> It was worth reading down just to see the

> contributor with the username 'racially ambiguous

> hottie'.

xxxxxxx

Indeed it was :))

ETA: I quite liked the "Yeh, when I stepped on an ant" comment, too.

[*Bob*]

Sue - serious and sensible discussions about foxes ONLY on this thread please.

[red devil]

Staying on topic...anyone else remember SuperVixens?

[Loz]

Russ Meyer. Awesome. And huge. Huge and awesome.

There was a man who knew a fox when he saw one.