I feel hostile towards french looking people today

[Keef]

I love that photo, how out of place can someone look?

[mockney piers]

I love it too, it looks so photoshopped, but it isn't. brilliant.

[tinagwee]

fantastic! lol

[clive3300]

That US military map is a bit silly really. Most countries in Africa are shown to have American troops. What, on holiday? or a single military attache at the local consulate? There is nothing remotely like an occupying force anywhere on the continent.

The whole of Australia and China are shown in dark red. All of India and Russia is shown light red (this maybe 50m sq km). However the reality is that in these countries, beyond a few hundred acres in small bases or the odd island, they have no presence, limited influence and certainly no control.

Quite different from direct imperial rule where the natives getting out of hand would result in an expeditionary force or a friendly visit from the RN!

[mockney piers]

Gunboat, cruise missile.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

[DaveR]

That Global Research article is hilarious:

"The US has established its control over 191 governments which are members of the United Nations. The conquest, occupation and/or otherwise supervision of these various regions of the World is supported by an integrated network of military bases and installations which covers the entire Planet (Continents, Oceans and Outer Space). All this pertains to the workings of an extensive Empire, the exact dimensions of which are not always easy to ascertain."

And the CIA shot Elvis!

[mockney piers]

in all fairness I didn't really read it, just had some nice pictures is all.

Plus the CIA force fed him burgers on the crapper.

[Brendan]

I seriously don?t believe that there are still people who think Elvis is dead.

Or indeed that he can ever die.

[Michael Palaeologus]

It occurs me that the Anglo-phobes out there have missed a trick or two.

America, as a former British Colony, is clearly the fault of the English, I mean they even speak English (nearly). So, the English are not only responsible for the all of the world's historic ills, but also for all of the current ones as well.

It also occurs to me that the Anglo-phobia amongts the former Colonials is rather suspect. The distance between love and hate being small, clearly independance has actually made them feel rejected and so they kick out against those that they really love. There is still a hankering for a firm English hand upon their otherwise unsteady tillers.

Think of the certainties that the Empire had, no need to be involved in complicated things like Government and Politics. Just get on with producing high value raw materials (gold, copper, aluminium, diamonds, potatoes) to be gifted to the Mother country; and then have the opportunity to buy those good back in the form of trains, Morris Minors and literacy.

[mockney piers]

It's jealousy, pure and simple, we still hanker for the days of the Raj, pink gin, the great game and pith helmets and damnable fine raiments.

Mind you having met some of the Brits in Hong Kong and Singapore, clearly the message hasn't yet got out to all that the Empire's over.

[Brendan]

I would say that any Anglophobia amongst ex-colonials is (as Mockney?s pictures illustrate) strictly to do with the striped blazers, ties, hats and flannel trousers we were forced to wear for 12 years of our school going lives.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Not much different to the MCC then?

[Brendan]

Yeah except in a million degree heat. That much sweat can scar a man for life.

[Huguenot]

I don't know much about hankering for the colonial purview, but 7% tax means I'll be here for a while ;-)

[Jimbob]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh and the whole the Irish have the right to hate

> the British thing, I've been saying in Ireland

> that this is just daft, British rulers were every

> bit as cruel to their own subjects (should we hate

> the French because those damn Plantaganets

> massacred Wat Tyler and his troop of good English

> men? - don't be silly).

>

> Those with power just happen to be bastards to

> those without, not just to foreigners, and then I

> read this wonderful article in the Irish

> independent.

>

> "more perverse was the general attitude that saw

> Ireland as being oppressed for centuries by the

> British, and especially by the English.

>

> In this context we see how language is abused: for

> "Britain" you should read "Britain's power elite".

> Innocent people grew up with the concept of one

> nation persecuting the other. Of course this is

> absurd.

>

> The seas between our two islands are not

> boundaries -- they are roads. For centuries there

> has been great coming and going between the two

> islands. The sweet music of the Gaelic language

> was heard in London in Shakespeare's time. Most of

> Wellington's army at the Battle of Waterloo were

> Southern Irish. It is said that after Gallipoli

> there was a crepe in every second house in the

> Coombe. I'm merely trying to say that these two

> islands have long been bound together. The British

> power elite abused their own common people just as

> much as they abused us. The eviction of the

> Highland Scots was an example of a people being

> cruel to their own.

>

> We will come nearer home: even in the worst times

> of the bombing in England by our "Freedom

> Fighters", there was no significant backlash. This

> proved, if proof were needed, that George Orwell

> was right when he always claimed that the English

> were essentially a decent people."

there it is the irish weren,t oppressed by the british, so all that stuff i was taught at school was pure claptrap then. obviously it was britains power elite who were responsible for cromwells reign of terror, bloody sunday 1 & 2, the civil war, karen reilly and others too numerous to mention, for the boyos who pulled the triggers were only following orders no doubt. and as for no backlash to the ira bombing campaign on the mainland, mention that to the irish of birmingham, guildford, manchester, warrington, and london and i think you,ll get your eyes opened a wee bit. i could tell you a story or two.

[languagelounger]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know much about hankering for the colonial

> purview, but 7% tax means I'll be here for a while

> ;-)

where, where?

[Huguenot]

It's much easier to blame the 'nation' and the 'race' because it provides a convenient excuse to sustain the conflict.

If we didn't blame the nation then Cromwell's crimes would have died with Cromwell, and perhaps somehow that's just not fair when murderous rage is so much more fun! It is invariably the innocents that suffer in any conflict, and hotblooded misinformed twenty-somethings lacking wisdom that perpetrate the crimes.

It's the power elite that does the misinforming.

If you were taught at school that every born english person bears a responsibility for the behviour of others past and present and deserves to have revenge visited upon them, then yes I'd probably be inclined to consider that claptrap.

Converseley if you were taught that understanding our history is the foundation to improve the future then those lessons were about as far from claptrap as you can get ;-)

[mockney piers]

"britains power elite who were responsible for cromwells reign of terror, [blah blah], mention that to the irish of birmingham, guildford, manchester, warrington, and london and i think you'll get your eyes opened a wee bit."

So let me get this right, I'm supposed to suffer some sort of collective guilt for Cromwell.

But there is no collective guilt for blowing people up in birmingham, guildford, manchester, warrington, and london. Presumably because the dead and maimed were not innocent people but all tainted with that same collective guilt, but pity the poor innocent Irish who suffered a backlash.

It's rather having your cake and eating it too isn't it?

Funnily enough when living in Amsterdam for a year, no Dutchman ever asked (the spanish half of) me to feel guilty for the actions of the Duke of Alba or his successors, and he made Cromwell look like a school playground bully by comparison.

[Brendan]

Yeah but he is hardly lorded as a hero by the Spanish over the Dutch.

[mockney piers]

I don't think anyone here thinks, Cromwell, he was great killing all those Irish, in fact most probably don't even know because we were only taught about his victory over the royalists and establishing Parliament as the highest law in the land.

Actually if there was criticism it's generally to do with the OTT puritanism, smashing all those lovely statues in churches and painting them white etc etc.

Alba's not lauded in Spain as he miserably failed to defeat the English (although if the armada had succeeded in neutralising the English Navy I don't doubt he'd have made it to London very easily, the English Army didn't stand a chance) and retired more or less in disgrace, again I doubt if a single child in Spain is even taught about the Dutch war of independence, an epic struggle that's little known about anywhere outside of the Low Countries. Spaniards are barely even taught about their own civil war!!

In fact Cromwell's campaign in Ireland was very much in that civil war sort of context, it wasn't an Irish nationalist uprising that was crushed by the nasty English (it was painted in that light during the genuinely nationalist struggles of the 19th & 20th centuries), it was very much in the context of a three sided war, between parliamentarians, royalists and the Irish Nobility who tried to take advantage of the a power vaccuum. In fact most of those killed at Drogheda were English Royalist troops.

[Brendan]

I don?t believe you MP. I don?t believe that the history curriculum includes more than a couple of romanticised accounts of Britain?s involvement in the 2 world wars. ;-)

[mockney piers]

Ha ha, very true, it's amazing how quickly we go from 1066 to crop rotation to 2 world wars and one world cup. Even after a university history degree I had a bizarre gap in my knowledge of domestic history between 1651 and 1914.

[Brendan]

I think most countries are the same to be honest. Unless you actually have an interest in finding things out yourself you are pretty much just going to learn the history that a bunch of bureaucrats in the Department/Ministry/office of Education feel will foster a national image which in most expedient to their political ends.

Well that is if, like me, you are perpetually distrusting and paranoid. It could just be that you can only fit so much history into so many years of schooling.

[Jimbob]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "britains power elite who were responsible for

> cromwells reign of terror, , mention that to the

> irish of birmingham, guildford, manchester,

> warrington, and london and i think you'll get your

> eyes opened a wee bit."

>

> So let me get this right, I'm supposed to suffer

> some sort of collective guilt for Cromwell.

> But there is no collective guilt for blowing

> people up in birmingham, guildford, manchester,

> warrington, and london. Presumably because the

> dead and maimed were not innocent people but all

> tainted with that same collective guilt, but pity

> the poor innocent Irish who suffered a backlash.

>

> It's rather having your cake and eating it too

> isn't it?

>

> Funnily enough when living in Amsterdam for a

> year, no Dutchman ever asked (the spanish half of)

> me to feel guilty for the actions of the Duke of

> Alba or his successors, and he made Cromwell look

> like a school playground bully by comparison.

no you,re not supposed to feel collective guilt, the same way i dont feel guilt anymore for bishopsgate,docklands etc.mind you at the time living in london it was a different story, despite the fact it was nothing to do with me that didn,t appear to matter too much to the few individuals i encountered, but thats the way of the world and always will be.

[mockney piers]

I quite agree, I think I said before that now, with the peace process in full swing, just how reasonable were the demands that were acceptable for an end to violence.

Those that should feel guilt were those who wanted to hang on to their exclusive positions of power and those unwilling to negotiate. Once again the interests of the power elite making the average punter who just wants to get on with their life suffer.

But as you say, that's the way of the world sadly :(