Parking controls in the Dulwich park?

[achaikos]

this is terrible. i love that park and i am sure they want money.

the park will not be good if they intoduce this parking rules.

[boswell]

Is 4 hours the most people need for a park visit then? That's the bit I most object to. I don't go to the park that regularly (probably once a month) but I haven't ever noticed dangerous/obstructive parking. Do you know how people can give their views on this?

[James Barber]

And at the last Dulwich Community council we rejected the poropsed 4 hour parking limit.

We agreed that parking enforcement of disabled bays should occur. and that agreed parking places come back to the community council and once agreed would be enforced - to stop dangerous parking.

[edhistory]

Which bye-law(s) need to be changed to introduce this?

John K

[jimbo1964]

Unless you're disabled why do you need to drive to the park anyway?

[Penguin68]

Unless you're disabled why do you need to drive to the park anyway?

Because you live a couple of miles away, with children, and you want them to exhaust themselves in the park, not getting there - because you have impedimenta that you want to bring to the park (e.g. bicyles for children) but don't want them cyling through the streets, because you live closer but have a number of small children with buggies - because you may not be disabled but may be older - or are you saying that the park should only be for people who are fit and live close?

[Earl Aelfheah]

What is this in response to? Has a problem been identified and if so, how?

[jimbo1964]

I think a lot of people drive to the park who could easily walk and leave spaces for those that need them.

[DulwichFox]

Blackheath used to be a place that on Sat/Sunday would be filled with hundreds of people.

Playing with ball games there children, Flying Kites, playing Frisby.

Then the local council restricted parking to about a dozen or so Paid Spaces..

The place is now soulless. No one goes there. Just a barren waste land.

Restrict parking in the Dulwich Park and risk the same there.

DulwichFox

[spider69]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> What is this in response to? Has a problem been

> identified and if so, how?

There does seem to be a great interest in changing and enforcing things in Dulwich Park, is there an agenda we should be made aware of. Or is it the park is slowly being being made available to only immediate Dulwich residents. Keep the rif.

raf out.

Appears everything Southwark is now doing comes down to producing fines.

Oh to go back to my youth when the park was open and free. When you could row all round the lake. Anyone remember that era, playing pirates and falling in?

[KidKruger]

Utterly pointless parking proposal, not sure who / what it is intended to serve or benefit.

Is it intended to give everyone a fair crack at having time (parking) in the park ?

Is it intended to create a situation where people can be 'at fault' (by breaching the 4 hour limit) and therefore money can be extracted from them ?

A curfew on time that can be spent there (if you park there) is bizarre.

The surrounding streets are best bet and will be the natural plan B for those that drive and don't want to be constrained in how long their day at the park lasts.

[spider69]

"The surrounding streets are best bet and will be the natural plan B for those that drive and don't want to be constrained in how long their day at the park lasts."

And then they will become CPZ producing more nconvience to all but best of all MORE FINES

[StraferJack]

more cars = more car trips = more parking requirements

Space is finite so controlling of parking is inevitable

If you were the council and were implementing these parking rules do you honestly think it's a proft maker? How much revenue would be collected versus cost of monitoring?

Nobody has the right to expect unfetterd motoring/parking in a world where so many more people take the road every year (and that's likely to include me very soon)

Only solution is for people who don't need to to use them less. The idea that if you live a couple of miles away and have kids you can't take train/bus is laughable and insulting to those people that do

[Sqiggles]

Most of the time the parking in Dulwich Park works just fine. But some summer weekends it gets really crowded and so people start to park down the middle of the road into the park before the entrance for the car park. I think this is what they are getting so upset about, as they worry that it blocks the road for emergency vehicles. But the 4 hour time limit is absolutely mad - why tell people how long they can stay in the park? It might be better to have some wardens enforcing the parking restrictions on the 20 or so days of the year when it is a problem. Suggesting parking on the nearby roads is not a sensible answer because on those same days those roads are all parked up too.

[Penguin68]

The idea that if you live a couple of miles away and have kids you can't take train/bus is laughable and insulting to those people that do

No it isn't - those who have the choice and choose train or bus are exercising a freedom to choose, as are those that choose to go by car (because it's more convenient, quicker etc.)

When I make any choice I do not intend, nor do I, 'insult' those who (able to make that choice) choose not to. Oh, I've chosen to eat out today - how insulting that is to those who have chosen to cook their own food and eat at home, oh, I've chosen to go to the cinema today - how insulting to those who have chosen to stay in and watch the TV. Or read a book (maybe the TV choosers are insulting them!)

It is still legal (and, frankly, no less moral than any other option) to own and use a car in the UK - no doubt some would like to make it illegal, or to start some form of secular religion which branded it immoral - but until it is made illegal, or is commonly accepted as immoral, then I will continue to make a choice to use a car (or not) as it suits me - and I do, frequently, use public transport when that is the best option for me, (not for some critical prodnose in cyber space).

[BrandNewGuy]

But a park clogged with cars is undesirable for all park users, so proposals to limit them are worth considering. There are thousands of activities that are perfectly legal, but society chooses to restrict or control them for the benefit of all. Your convenience does not trump all other considerations. And here's a list of parks and open spaces where kids (and adults) can roam free - and all within about half an hour's walk or 15 mins on a bus from the middle of East Dulwich: Belair Park, Peckham Rye Common, Peckham Rye Park, Sunray Gardens, Ruskin Park, Horniman Gardens, Sydenham Hill Wood, Brockwell Park, Telegraph Hill, One Tree Hill, Brenchley Gardens, Warwick Gardens and Dawsons Hill. You could try using your local space.

[StraferJack]

Sheesh Penguin, a bit overly harsh and defensive response from you there?

I will concede that ?insulting? was probably not the word I should have used ? I thought your earlier response to someone?s suggestion about transport was overly dismissive but not really insulting

Not sure your analogies work tho? - nobody was saying you choice on a given day was ?wrong? ? just that if the parking restrictions become onerous, options are available. You don?t really have to dismiss them so readily

?It is still legal (and, frankly, no less moral than any other option) to own and use a car in the UK - no doubt some would like to make it illegal, or to start some form of secular religion which branded it immoral - but until it is made illegal, or is commonly accepted as immoral, then I will continue to make a choice to use a car (or not) as it suits me?

It?s getting a bit weird and OTT here ? you seem to be fighting a different argument against different people. I don?t mind in the slightest if you want to drive. But if a council steps in to manage a physical/logistical problem (not a moral or legal one) I don?t quite see the same problem some other people seem to

[Siduhe]

But a park clogged with cars is undesirable for all park users, so proposals to limit them are worth considering. There are thousands of activities that are perfectly legal, but society chooses to restrict or control them for the benefit of all.

This is exactly what I understood the proposals were about - giving the maximum possible group of people the chance to use the park at popular times and recognising that the park is particularly popular with groups of people (families) that will find it a lot more straightforward to drive there. Otherwise it's a bit like saying, so long as I can park it doesn't matter what happens to anyone else in my situation. Not suggesting that anyone here has said that, but the proposals seem a reasonable balance to me. If you need to drive, the time you can park is limited to help other people in the situation.

Also to stop what turned into really silly parking during the summer - people were parking on the pavement and blocking off the buggy/disabled access on a regular basis.

[StraferJack]

Looking back, I see penguin and I have form on this subject

Although I especially liked this comment from someone else on that earlier thread

"Dear Straferjack

If you are 'Southwark councillor and member of the ruling labour party' as Penguin68 says, you should be ashamed of your council and your party. "

[Romnarz]

Parking fees are often introduced in this sneaky way.They will have to pay someone to regularly check that cars have not overstayed the 4 hour limit, the few penalty charges that get paid will not be enough so then they will say they have to introduce a charge to pay for the enforcement.- just wait n see!

[spider69]

"But a park clogged with cars is undesirable for all park users, so proposals to limit them are worth considering."

People seem to forget or have no idea that Dulwich Park had parking all round the perimeter road in past years until it was restricted to just the Dulwich entrance and the small car park. It has all ready been considered and a workable and lasting solution has been provided.

Dulwich park is not clogged with cars. So not sure why this is being considered.

Would love to see tired old and young children, bikes, dogs and toys etc etc being taken on a bus or walking for 30 minutes after a days expedition to the local park or one reached by travel

[Earl Aelfheah]

Where is the evidence that there is a problem? How many people currently use the car park for more than 4 hours at a time, or park in disabled bay, when they are not entitled to do so? Southwark are always creating 'solutions' to anecdotal problems. Before creating little cottage industries that swell an already stretched council bureaucracy, how about doing some proper ground work, to establish whether anything actually needs fixing?

[James Barber]

The 4 hour proposal WAS REJECTED BY COUNCILLORS.

Disabled parking is occupied by non disabled drivers and apparently this is a year round issue. So without some formal documentation this can;t be enforced. Shameful that people would do this and that council tax money, your and my money, needs to be spent on creating a situaiton where these spaces can be legally enforced with moral enforcement having failed.

Yes, several weekends a year the park is over run with cars and agreement is needed on the exact layout to be considered safe and that vehicles contravening this will be issued parking tickets. I had asked that parks and highways team agree something with the friend group to speed things up but fellow councillors wanted to make the decision rather than just the principle.

[Earl Aelfheah]

'Apparently' there is a problem... But there has not been even a rudimentary survey undertaken to confirm / quantify it. No one suggests that parking in a disabled bay when not entitled to is acceptable btw. That doesn't change the need for evidence based decision making.

[BrandNewGuy]

spider69 Wrote:

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> Would love to see tired old and young children,

> bikes, dogs and toys etc etc being taken on a bus

> or walking for 30 minutes after a days expedition

> to the local park or one reached by travel

So how far are you from one or more of the parks and spaces I mentioned? 30 minutes was the maximum walk. "Day's expedition" is just silly...