Problems with Unqualified teacher in an academy - any sensible advice welcome

[StraferJack]

Bawdy nan. I was not aware.

[Otta]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

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> Are you aware that there are no local authority

> secondaries in all of southwark?

No way? Really? That's pretty bloody shocking IMO.

[TE44]

The complain procedure is very different in an academy,especially after going through the procedure and not happy

with the outcome. The funding agreement is between the secretary of state and the sponsors, leaving the parent in a different situation legally. The EDA(my post above) deal with acadeny complaint for SOS. There have been freedom of info requests asking the number of complaints and the action taken, There is a question pending now, although up now no figures have been released. Sorry cant put up links.

[bawdy-nan]

hi Otta - yup

[TE44]

I'm shocked bawdy-nan, it doesn't seem that long ago, when that might only have been a possibility.

[lightweight]

I thought Charter is a community school? Must have changed...

[TE44]

Charter became an academy in 2010 lightweight.

[TE44]

Bb100,I would let head know you are aware that your child was bullied after previous complaints.

This can be done without your child knowing, and insist any form of communication should be between you the compainant

through the official channels stated in there procedure. They have not seemef

to follow this up well but to take it out on your child is so wrong.

[simonethebeaver]

There are areas of Crystal Palace/Norwood/Penge/Beckenham etc where your only choice of secondary is a Harris School now. They are taking over everywhere.

[ianr]

The regulations specifying the standards legally required of an independent school such as an academy appear to be The Education (Independent School Standards) (England) Regulations 2010 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1997/made. See paragraph 25 of Schedule 1 to those regulations for "Manner in which complaints are to be handled", and paragraph 2(3) in the Interpretation section about what "making available" of a document means. (To cross the t's, there are some minor 2012 amendments to the regs at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/2962/made). The proprietor of the school is the governing body.

[BB100]

Finally got a phone call back today after lots of chasing today. Deputy rang and said he would have a look at the children's books and that's it(still no response from my e-mails to Head). I won't hold my breath it being so close to half-term.

[nancyse15]

This is an example of why we should object to the spread of these Academies. An unqualified 'teacher' is not a teacher. Astounding that this is allowed or even legal. But it is.

[Saffron]

Plenty of qualified teachers who are shite as well. It's not just academies. The whole system needs an overhaul.

[bawdy-nan]

I've just spent weeks looking round local secondaries and I was actually quite impressed.

The problem the OP has is specific to academies as there's no easy next level up after the governors if the head won't respond.

[Otta]

I personally don't see a problem with schools using unqualified teachers for special!st subjects, and indeed they may be the best people to teach these things. But it requires close supervision, and that is what seems to be missing in this case.

[bornagain]

Saffron Wrote:

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> Plenty of qualified teachers who are shite as

> well. It's not just academies. The whole system

> needs an overhaul.

Before we start the 'most teachers are rubbish' discussion, take a look at this thread about year 7's starting this year. What struck me was how much the children in question rated their teachers and how much the teachers contributed to their children's enjoyment of school.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/1885922-Tell-me-the-lovely-things-about-having-a-child-in-secondary-school

[Saffron]

Just to be clear:

I did not say, and did not intend for my statement to be read as, 'most teachers are rubbish'. And, I definitely do NOT agree that most teachers are rubbish, nor was I trying to start an argument. I was simply pointing out that having a *teaching* qualification does not *necessarily* make one a better teacher than someone who does not have a teaching qualification. And that the intrinsic problems with state-funded education in England runs much deeper than the question of academies.

However, that does not mean that I believe there should be not be a standardised procedure for vetting specialists with no teaching qualification. Indeed, I very much feel that the case for specialist educators with no teaching qualifications would be very much improved by a standardised vetting process.

Good luck with your complaints process, BB100. Will be waiting to hear how it turns out, and hope you get a positive, proactive result. xx

[bornagain]

I am always surprised by the view that you do not need teachers to under go specialist training before they are let loose on their precious children. It's a view that has been resurrected by Gove et al with sometimes disasterous results - see poor BB100's child's predicament, also the unqualified head that resigned from Pimlico school recently.

Just because someone has studied a subject, does not necessarily mean that they will be able to teach it. This presumption is arrogant and dangerous! Teaching is and has always been a profession. You need specialist teaching skills and knowledge to be effective. You would not allow your child to be treated by an unqualified doctor so why would you be happy for your child to be taught by an unqualified teacher?

[ianr]

Otta Wrote:

> bawdy-nan Wrote:

> > Are you aware that there are no local authority secondaries in all of southwark?

> No way? Really? That's pretty bloody shocking IMO.

"As of 3 October 2013 there are 3,364 academies open in England." [source: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/academies/b00208569/open-academies]

Schools in Southwark (my counting):

18 Academy

37 Community - most have 'primary' in their name

8 Community Special

4 Free School

5 LA Nursery School

10 Other Independent

1 Pupil Referral Unit

1 Secure Unit

27 Voluntary Aided School - most have 'primary' in their name

[source: Edubase database of all schools; public portal http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/home.xhtml]

[bawdy-nan]

Ianr - there are no community secondaries in Southwark:

From southwark's website:

Types of secondary schools in Southwark

There are three types of mainstream secondary schools in Southwark. The schools all follow the national curriculum and are regularly inspected by the Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted). For children starting secondary school in Southwark there are 18 secondary schools to choose from.

Voluntary aided schools

There are four voluntary aided secondary schools in Southwark. The school's governing body is responsible for their admissions and decides how pupils are admitted.

Academies

There are 13 academies in Southwark. The Academy Trust is responsible for school admissions and decides how pupils are admitted.

Free schools

There is one secondary free school in Southwark. The school's governing body is responsible for school admissions and decides how pupils are admitted.

[TE44]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

Above is a link to when goverment changes began,regarding unqualified teachers. More detail on the goverment website

(can't copy it), I don't know what changes if any these changes would make to the goverments initiative

"troops to teachers", considering they were in a different situation within the regulations of unqualified teachers.

A DFE spokesman said that John Nash, parliamentary under secretary of state did not take any decisions which affected

schools in which his charity was involved. "The decision to do this was made when Lord Nash became minister

to avoid any conflicts of interest". (pimlico)

This was in response to acall by labour.

This brings a feeling of deja vu, when Jack Straw was a school governor at Pimlico and labour was pushing the Pfi (private financial inituitive). Only then, the parents had more of a say, calling for his resignation over conflicts of interest.

[Otta]

bornagain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am always surprised by the view that you do not

> need teachers to under go specialist training

> before they are let loose on their precious

> children. It's a view that has been resurrected by

> Gove et al with sometimes disasterous results -

> see poor BB100's child's predicament, also the

> unqualified head that resigned from Pimlico school

> recently.

>

> Just because someone has studied a subject, does

> not necessarily mean that they will be able to

> teach it. This presumption is arrogant and

> dangerous! Teaching is and has always been a

> profession. You need specialist teaching skills

> and knowledge to be effective. You would not allow

> your child to be treated by an unqualified doctor

> so why would you be happy for your child to be

> taught by an unqualified teacher?

Doctor / Teacher hmmm, let me think. It's a hell of a lot easier to become a teacher than a doctor! (not dissing teachers, but wouldn't compare their qualification and study to that of a doctor)

I don't think it's right for schools to hire unqualified teachers for subjects like science / English / maths, but I think it's perfectly fine to bring in experienced sports coaches for games / PE, and I can imagine bringing people in for languages, and I see no problem with it so long as it's closely monitored and supervised. Equally with that head in Pimlico, I don't think there is so much a problem for an experienced manager with very good people skills to run a school if they have a good knowledgable team around them. That girl was 27 years old and knew nothing about education.

There is unqualified, and unqualified.

[bornagain]

> Doctor / Teacher hmmm, let me think. It's a hell

> of a lot easier to become a teacher than a doctor!

> (not dissing teachers, but wouldn't compare their

> qualification and study to that of a doctor)

>

> I don't think it's right for schools to hire

> unqualified teachers for subjects like science /

> English / maths, but I think it's perfectly fine

> to bring in experienced sports coaches for games /

> PE, and I can imagine bringing people in for

> languages, and I see no problem with it so long as

> it's closely monitored and supervised. Equally

> with that head in Pimlico, I don't think there is

> so much a problem for an experienced manager with

> very good people skills to run a school if they

> have a good knowledgable team around them. That

> girl was 27 years old and knew nothing about

> education.

>

> There is unqualified, and unqualified.

Hmmm? are you happy putting the future of your children in the hands of those unqualified to do the task? Don't forget your children will be in the sole care of those so-called professionals for hours over the school year. It's just not enough to be CRB checked?

I am not saying that all qualified teachers are good but surely for our kid's sake we could ask for some minimum standards. As far as I can see allowing non-qualified teachers into the classroom is a cost-cutting exercise and a way to plug gaps in subjects that they can't fill.

I cannot see why you can't insist that a prospective teacher should devote just one year of their life (if a graduate) to get a PGCE qualification - don't think that's asking a lot?!

[TE44]

Bb100,How did you find out your childs teacher is unqualified, I can't find any figureson unqualified teachers being employed,was wondering if the school told you. I'm assuming this is being monitered to establish a clear picture

of how it is working/not working. This info should be available.

[Otta]

bornagain, yes I'd be okay with it of they were regularly supervised and observed.

In social care / health there are lots if examples of unqualified workers such as OT Assistants working with people in cases that don't require full OT input, once assessed by a qualified worker, and with the work being monitored by qualified workers.

I am not saying that anyone with a DBS (new name for CRB, now Disclosure and Barring Service) should be left to teach kids with no one keeping an eye on it regularly.