sleep trainers/consultants - do they work?

[etta166]

My 3rd child is currently 4 months old, and we are getting seriously little sleep at the moment. It's a real struggle to cope with on a day to day basis. She hasn't always been a bad sleeper, infact she was a really good sleeper until about 3-4 weeks ago.

I'm hugely sceptical that a sleep consultant or trainer could do anything for me, but I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. What's the general opinion on baby sleep trainers/consultants? Do they actually work? Do any accept payment on result only?

A bit more detail about the current scenario is that my baby has moderate reflux wich is currently treated with ranitidine and domperidone faily effectively, she feeds well most of the time, has gained weight well and will take a bottle. During the day she is very easy, settels to sleep on her own or with minimal intervention. At 7pm bed time she also settles well on her own and sleeps well for 4-5 hours. She will dream feed, but often only 2-4 oz. After about 1am she wakes frequeltly, is very hard to settle and by 3am appears to be ravenous. After feeding at 3am, she screams and fidgets, is very hard to settle into a good sleep, and I can rarely put her down.

I'm not willing to do controlled crying or anything noisy at night becuase it will wake my other children up. I'm open to any other advice/sleep training suggestions. My main question is, can I change this or is it just a phase that will pass soon enough? And would hiring a sleep consultant make it pass any faster??

[Saffron]

What time is the dream feed? Do you feed her at 1am or just the 3am feed?

What type of bed does she have? A baby hammock like the Amby brand 'Nature's Nest' would help keep her gently elevated and has a soothing motion.

Nothing wrong with trying a sleep consultant, but don't get talked into something you're not happy with just b/c an 'expert' said it. Controlled crying as originally formulated and tested by Dr Christopher Green is not for babied under 6 months or babies or children with other physical or mental health problems. However there are many other sleep modifications programs, so look for someone with sleep experience in very young infants and reflux.

Good luck. Lots of sympathy! Xx

[LauraHW]

Worked for us! We used millpond with ds who was then 5 months. They definitely didn't try to push anything on us we weren't happy with. By 7 months he slept through most nights. Feel free to pm me if you want more details

[tomskip]

I have every sympathy!

It strikes me that it is a shame for your baby to have her longest stretch of night time sleep at a time which doesn't coincide with yours. So I wonder if it would be helpful if you kept her up for the evening and both went to bed at, say, 10ish. This is definitely what we did with our two. They stayed "up" and downstairs with us for the evening and their bedtime gradually got earlier and earlier until we could reliably settle them at 8/8.30 to more or less sleep through til about 5.30/6.00 by the age of about 7 months. Once a baby has woken up once at night, they might go off to sleep again but they never sleep for as long as that initial stretch of sleep, in my experience. Much the same as for adults.

Oh it is grim as a grim thing!

[Strawbs]

I am very interested in this too actually as my now 2y old has always been a terrible sleeper and still doesn't sleep through the night and I am expecting number 2 in March and am already thinking about stashing away some extra cash for a sleep person to help me with them both once number 2 arrives..

I'll be reading with interest! X

[nunheadmum]

When my youngest was 4 months old we got a nanny in from Night Nannies who did some sleep training with us (I note, it was us as much as the baby who had the problems!) and I have to say, it felt like the best money we ever spent. Having struggled with our eldest who was then almost 3 and only just sleeping through, we couldn't face that again with our youngest. We talked stuff through with the nanny to ensure that we were happy with the approach before we committed to anything. But my youngest went from waking 5+ times a night to sleeping through within a week.

If you can find someone who understands your situation and has an approach you feel comfortable with, it's well worth the money in my opinion. Once you get some sleep you can enjoy your kids and respond to them so much more.

[tomskip]

So what was the approach of the night nanny, Nunheadmum?

[vez]

What do the sleep trainers actually do?

Etta, 4 months is a typical time for sleep regression as babies usually go through a growth spurt. You may want to google 4 months sleep regression for more explanations. It's very normal.

[Yuuna]

I would also be interested to know what exactly the 'sleep training' methods are. Would anyone give an example?

[klove]

We were gifted a sleep consultation by someone who felt sorry for us and it was definitely not worth the money. They basically told me to just feed my son (six months at the time) only every three hours at night. That was it! Someone else leant us a consultation document which told them to do the gradual retreat method. It was slightly better because it gave them a night by night routine, just what you need when you're too sleep deprived to think properly!

What helped us in the end was some advice from my health visitor mum (yes, I know what they can be like, but she actually really helped us). But she didn't tell us anything I hadn't read online.

Night Nannies does sound great though!

[Ladysaw]

I am also having the same problem with my 13 month old daughter. She has only slept through 20 times since birth. My friends ALWAYS laugh at the fact that we've counted but that's how special a sleep through is for us.

I am really nervous returning to work fulltime this thursday. Any information would be useful for us too.

[claudineslu]

Hi all

I am reading this thread with great interest. (I am currently starting as a sleep trainer myself.)

Having unknowingly 'trained' children whilst babysitting for friends and family, I realised that this can be a real strain on families.

The main reason why sleep training works when using a professional is because that person generally has slept. There is no real magic rule, other than being consistent in using whatever routine you would like.

I really feel for all of you and cannot imagine how hard this all is, especially for the mother who is going back to work next week.

I really would like to help, so if anyone is up for meeting for coffee, I am happy to offer my services (in return maybe for a reference, if things are successful?)

I can do most mornings, so just send me an email on [email protected]

Claudine

[etta166]

Thanks all. I have come to the conclusion (I should add after 3 nights of good sleep with my other half doing the night waking) that there can't be any magic solution or we'd all have babies that slept really well by now! I'm reassured that it is normal and it is, like everything else, just a passing phase.

CLaudine - do you have any experience with babies with reflux? If so, I'd love to take you up on the offer of meeting up to see if you have any bright ideas that I haven't thought of yet.

[Sarah30]

My little one has never slept through the night (she's now 18 months). The best we have had is her sleeping until 5.30am on 3 occasions. For the first 6 weeks she would cry and cry the whole time if I wan

Sent holding her. She had tongue tie and feeding was a nightmare so I suspect this was why - so for the first 8 weeks I held her all the time and she slept lying on my chest whilst I half sat up in bed. After she had the tongue snip and learnt to feed properly things got better and she started to sleep in a cot. At one point she was sleeping 10pm to 4am. Then she started teething at about 4 months..... Things went crazy and she was awake every few hours - I resorted to co-sleeping and feeding her to sleep. At 6 months I was exhausted and with going back to work looming at 8.5months, we paid not a small amount of money for a sleep consultant. She was helpful and certainly helped me to stop feeding to sleep. However progress with sleeping through was very difficult. Then we went away for Christmas and what little progress we had made went out the window! Then in January I went back to work..... This led to a whole load of seperation anxiety and the last thing I felt I could do was let her cry at night. We tried to still keep her in her cot but with hourly or 2 hourly waking I couldn't manage and so she ended back in the bed with me. For a while we got to the point where she was going to sleep in her bed and sleeping mostly until about 3-4am, then she'd come into the bed and sleep fairly well until about 6am - and I was surviving!

However, the teething has now returned with avengance and so we are back to waking every hour - last night she was awake and crying for 4 hours......

So overall I would say some of what the sleep consultant said was useful but probably not worth the money for us - although you'll do anything when you're desperately sleep deprived!

Lots of people tell me to just let her cry it out but we have tried that and my little one really does have the ability to cry for hours! Even my in-laws were shocked one weekend when she screamed for 3 hours straight. So I can't really offer any advice save to say that you are not alone! I don't think there are any magic answers but if you find one let me know!

[Fuschia]

Cosleeping on a mattress or futon with just mother and baby, at least from first waking, is a pretty good solution in my experience, though it might not suit everybody

[nunheadmum]

Tomskip - for us, the approach involved sorting out the daytime feeding and then, once that was settled, doing some controlled crying (about 15 mins - which we felt more secure doing with a professional there to reassure us that we weren't missing some practical problem) before feeding at night. Within 3 nights, the LO slept through.

It worked for us and we were happy with the approach, having spent 2 years of broken sleep with our first. But I can equally see that others might not be happy doing it. I think working with the parents is as important as working out the baby's 'issues'. A good consultant would work with you, not simply impose their standard approach.

[claudineslu]

Hi all

Etta, it is difficult to know what you have tried so far, but happy to meet up and have a chat.

I have had success with one reflux baby using a Hammock for night time. (You can get them on Ebay relatively cheaply these days.)

If buying a huge contraption isnt an option, I have just read some stuff on the internet, and I know i am probably committing professional suicide here, but have you tried sleeping your LO on his front?

Have a look at some of the threads on netmums if you get a moment.

I have personally not tried it myself, but if your baby can hold his head safely and in conjunction with using a sensor mat, it seems to have given lots of reflux babies the relief they needed to sleep through, by putting pressure on their tummies and the warmth can also help with reflux.

Please let me know how you get on.

Good luck

Claudine

[Ladysaw]

Hi Claudine, you made a good point there. Babies always sleep better on their front. I wish I started before 6 months as in my countty they always put their babes on their tummies from day 1. In the uk the midwives scare you to death and make you out to be a bad mother if you do. Obviously I know there is the risk of sids but personally I do not know of anyone encountering such a loss!

[etta166]

Well, after an appointment with the consultants at King's today regarding the reflux, it seems that all is normal and that this is the kind of sleep I should expect given the curcumstances. There is no magic bullet, athough I do now have a new drug regimen to try out... So no sleep consultants for me as I am not convinced that there is anything else that I can do to improve the situation at the moment.

And just as a cautionary note to anyone reading this thread, sleeping your baby in a prone or side position should be an absolute last resort, even with reflux, and only if you are advised to do it by a doctor. The SIDS risk is small but real, and it is increased by sleeping a baby on its front. And for what it's worth, my baby already does sleep on her front, not because I want her to (actually, it makes me a bit anxious) but because she turns herself over pretty much as soon as I put her down and will keep rolling over if I "correct" her sleeping position.

[claudineslu]

Oh Etta, really sorry that you didn't get the answer you were looking for.

I hope you get some sleep soon.

Good luck

C

[jules b]

this sounds so so horribly familiar!

Our first son, nearly 4 now, still doesn't sleep terribly well, but as a baby it was torture. He had colic and the only way we could get him to sleep was by breastfeeding so he had a very strong 'sleep association' (to use the lingo). This meant that every time he went thru a sleep cycle (every 45 mins) he woke and couldn't resettle himself so at 10 months old was still waking, crying, and insisting on being fed, every 45 mins, all night, every night. And from about 11pm till 4am, often he just couldn't get back to sleep even tho i was holding him.

I got every sleep book i could lay my hands on and the most helpful one was the Millpond one. For a start it explains how babies sleep. However, i was too tired to work out my own plan of attack, and there were too many layers of problems so i didn't know where to start. In the end, in desperation we got a consultant from Millpond, and it was expensive, but it worked.

Our consultant did not ever insist on any particular technique, but made a plan with us, and helped us put it into practice. All by phone consultation. Like i said, it was expensive, but for sleep i would've paid 10x!

Here's wishing you sleep, and if it's any comfort, reflux usually disappears at around 8months (our second son had reflux), just do whatever it takes to get thru! Get whatever help you can. Good luck.